On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:10:25 GMT, "Cindy" wrote:


snork
You are even ornerier than me! ;-D

Thanks.
I don't like being told what I should and should not do by people who know
*nothing* about my way of life.


You said your brother goes out annually with his snow blower and kills
coyotes. That's what I was addressing. I never "told" you what to
do. If you don't care, I certainly don't.

In article ,
Bourne Identity wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:12:11 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:


I have a question... Do you have dogs? Cats?

I had two cats and a dog and they all passed away in 2000. However,
before that I rarely had trouble with fleas because of a few things.
My cats were not outdoor cats, and Ozzy Dog was fed nothing but the
best food, as well as using Missing Link for both the cats and the
dog. We also fed the dog brewers yeast and we never had a flea
problem.

Do you treat them for fleas or do you just let the fleas do what comes
naturally and make your animals miserable?

We have a Macaw now and I cook for her special food she needs for her
diet, as well as pellets, special bread with crushed eggshells in it
for calcium, and seeds. She doesn't have mites because she gets a
shower daily and is fed a healthy diet, has no stress in her little
life and is treated very well. I would never consider making an
animal miserable for any reason.

Do you treat your dogs for heartworms?

We did.

If you have chickens and they get mites and/or lice (often carried in by
wild birds so takes annual prevention), are you going to treat or let
your birds be parasite ridden?

I don't have chickens.

What about annual worming for roundworms and tapeworms?

No, I never did annual worming because they never had worms. I would
bring a stool sample for that and in all 15 years for the animals
lives, they never had worms.

Now be careful! If you admit to treating your pets for parasites, I'll
call you a hypocrite as you will finally have to admit that even _you_,
the religious fanatic, have your limits.

I'm not a religious fanatic, that's your limitation on who I am. You
can call me a hypoctrite if you want, no problem. I know who I am and
it's of no consequence what you think of me. You don't need to be a
religious fanatic to know right from wrong.

That was the entire point of this whole discussion!
I kill rats that over run my yard and do untold property damage.

Cindy's brother kills coyotes that eat his cattle.

That does not make US bad people either!
You seemed to infer that it did and it was unfair.


If you do NOT treat your animals for parasites, I'll accuse you of
animal cruelty and negligence!

Okay. It won't get you anywhere since that is not happening, but okay
anyway.

You killed heartworms. ;-)


Do you care to answer this?

Not particularly, but I did because I'm a decent person.

So are we.

I think we can end this now.

Cheers!


--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article ,
Bourne Identity wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:10:25 GMT, "Cindy" wrote:


snork
You are even ornerier than me! ;-D

Thanks.
I don't like being told what I should and should not do by people who know
*nothing* about my way of life.


You said your brother goes out annually with his snow blower and kills
coyotes. That's what I was addressing. I never "told" you what to
do. If you don't care, I certainly don't.

The coyotes were killing his cattle.
It was his right to control a predator problem.

You basically had no case.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:48:33 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:

That was the entire point of this whole discussion!
I kill rats that over run my yard and do untold property damage.

I'm okay with ending this discussion if you want that, but let me
start again with the hopes you will understand what I said.

I am not going to quote myself, too lazy, but the actual truth is I am
always concerned when people boast or have bravado about killing
anything. It is mean spirited and the harm which is caused, is to the
person who is doing the boasting. You probably won't belive me, but I
said what I did out of compassion for the parties who were proud of
killing animals for whatever reason.

It's not just Buddhism, it's any religion. At the bottom of the
majoritiy of religions be they Wicca, Catholicism, Judaism or Buddhism
is an altruistic intention to do no harm. Intention is everything.
If I remember correctly, I said to please don't boast about killing
animals with snowmobiles because it is such bad karma. Believe in
karma or not, I had one intention, to bring to the subject a certain
element of compassion, not to start a huge fight. Actually, I don't
think we did have a fight, rather it was a debate. Some are skillful
at debate, some may not be. Either way, my intentions were in the
right place.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:49:19 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:


The coyotes were killing his cattle.
It was his right to control a predator problem.

You basically had no case.

Cheers!

She didn't say that in the beginning. She said it like it was
something he actually looks forward to with bloodlust. At least
that's how I saw it. I may have been wrong, but I still stand by my
original intention. It's very bad karma to be boastful about killing.
I wasn't trying to have a case. Maybe you understand where I am
coming from, maybe not.

Her attacking your brother for protecting his cattle is what got me
started...

Oh, me too. An attack on my brother is an attack on me.

Bourne Identity wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:10:25 GMT, "Cindy" wrote:


snork
You are even ornerier than me! ;-D

Thanks.
I don't like being told what I should and should not do by people
who know *nothing* about my way of life.


You said your brother goes out annually with his snow blower and kills
coyotes. That's what I was addressing. I never "told" you what to
do. If you don't care, I certainly don't.

If you don't care, then why did you stick your nose in, criticize what I
said and start a debate?

And I quote you, "That really is nothing to be boastful about. Murdering
one animal to
protect another is no virtue. It's actually really bad karma. Please
try to refrain or have your brother refrain from doing such heinous
things."

According to you, I'm bragging that my brother *murders* coyotes to keep his
calves alive. Heinous? Puh-leeze.
Well, then there are certainly a lot of evil, heinous cattlemen and farmers
out there, killing the poor little coyotes, grasshoppers, gophers, weeds and
a host of other critters, blights, diseases and molds that threaten their
livelihoods......It's a hard enough life without standing by watching what
you work to produce being destroyed by pests and vermin.

Bourne Identity wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:49:19 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:


The coyotes were killing his cattle.
It was his right to control a predator problem.

You basically had no case.

Cheers!

She didn't say that in the beginning.

I wasn't talking to you. I was replying to Katra, who understood exactly
where I was coming from.

She said it like it was
something he actually looks forward to with bloodlust.

He does look forward to it. It's called *hunting,* (not to be confused with
murder and bloodlust.) Many people enjoy it, whether hunting for meat or to
control predators.

At least
that's how I saw it. I may have been wrong, but I still stand by my
original intention. It's very bad karma to be boastful about killing.
I wasn't trying to have a case. Maybe you understand where I am
coming from, maybe not.

I don't care where you're coming from.

I eat meat every day, kill every mosquito that lands on me, poison fireants
regularly to keep them out of my yard and trap the mice in my garage.
I feed rats to my snakes and crickets to my lizards because that's what they
*eat.* They can't survive on salad.
My dogs eat dry food made from meat, and I cook them a lovely ground chicken
mixture, because dogs are not vegetarians.
When I lived home on the farm, I shot gophers and coyotes, killed millions
of houseflies with bait traps and poisoned lots of mice.
We all do what we're taught and what we consider necessary to protect our
livelihood and quality of life, and I doubt anyone is thrilled be told
they're wrong, bad, heinous murderers for doing it.

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 05:45:38 GMT, "Cindy" wrote:

Bourne Identity wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:49:19 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:


The coyotes were killing his cattle.
It was his right to control a predator problem.

You basically had no case.

Cheers!

She didn't say that in the beginning.

I wasn't talking to you. I was replying to Katra, who understood exactly
where I was coming from.

She said it like it was
something he actually looks forward to with bloodlust.

He does look forward to it. It's called *hunting,* (not to be confused with
murder and bloodlust.) Many people enjoy it, whether hunting for meat or to
control predators.

At least
that's how I saw it. I may have been wrong, but I still stand by my
original intention. It's very bad karma to be boastful about killing.
I wasn't trying to have a case. Maybe you understand where I am
coming from, maybe not.

I don't care where you're coming from.

I eat meat every day, kill every mosquito that lands on me, poison fireants
regularly to keep them out of my yard and trap the mice in my garage.
I feed rats to my snakes and crickets to my lizards because that's what they
*eat.* They can't survive on salad.
My dogs eat dry food made from meat, and I cook them a lovely ground chicken
mixture, because dogs are not vegetarians.
When I lived home on the farm, I shot gophers and coyotes, killed millions
of houseflies with bait traps and poisoned lots of mice.
We all do what we're taught and what we consider necessary to protect our
livelihood and quality of life, and I doubt anyone is thrilled be told
they're wrong, bad, heinous murderers for doing it.


I feel sorry for you.

In article ,
"Cindy" wrote:

I eat meat every day, kill every mosquito that lands on me, poison fireants
regularly to keep them out of my yard and trap the mice in my garage.
I feed rats to my snakes and crickets to my lizards because that's what they
*eat.* They can't survive on salad.
My dogs eat dry food made from meat, and I cook them a lovely ground chicken
mixture, because dogs are not vegetarians.
When I lived home on the farm, I shot gophers and coyotes, killed millions
of houseflies with bait traps and poisoned lots of mice.
We all do what we're taught and what we consider necessary to protect our
livelihood and quality of life, and I doubt anyone is thrilled be told
they're wrong, bad, heinous murderers for doing it.

What kind of lizards do you have? :-)
I just dropped 5 bucks on crickets yesterday for my pet bullfrog. She is
still a baby but is really growing fast, so beginning to eat a lot more!
She morphed in early January of this year. I bought her as a tadpole.

I've always wanted a large frog! G Pretty tame too, especially
compared to leapard frogs. Siggy lets me handle and pet her. She's about
2" long now and gettng hefty.

I gut load her crickets with a mix of fish food and reptile vitamins.
She has also increased her cricket intake since I put her on moss
instead of fishtank gravel. I think she finds it more comfortable. I
should have used that as substrate in the first place! I was worried
about ease of keeping it clean, but it appears it's actually going to be
easier than rinsing gravel once every couple of weeks.

I want to eventually build her a large vivarium once I finish
redecorating the livingroom. Half land and half water. Once she gets
bigger, she really should have access to feeder fish to eat, so that
will require a better aquatic habitat.

It's funny how the crickets all swarm the food dish when they are put in
her terrarium. The pet store does not feed them so they are always very
hungry... Poor things! :-(

Also, how are you killing houseflies? I'm having a problem with them on
the sun porch and the usual stinkbait drowning bag trap is not
attracting these for some reason. I've considered Golden Mallorin (sp?)
but the last time I bought it, it did not work very well.

I used to keep a pet boa constrictor but I lost her after a very long
(and expensive) fight with some sort of gastrointestinal disorder.
sigh Sucked too. I had her for several years and Babs was a really
nice pet. I won't keep pet snakes anymore. I just don't really have the
space now that we've moved into a smaller house. I always did feel a bit
sorry for the rats. ;-) I've kept pet rats and they are smart and
interesting pets. Too bad they only live about 2 years. My last pet rat
was one of those naked, hairless ones. She only lived about 1 year. :-(

Many snake owners train their pet snakes to eat fresh frozen rats,
thawed and warmed. It's less risky for the snakes as rat bites during
constriction can be a problem and can get infected. Or, if a rat is left
unattended with a snake that is not ready to eat, the rat can inflict
severe damage to a snake. I've seen horrible photos of that. :-( I
always supervised feedings when I fed live, but I did eventually switch
her to FF thawed rats. She ate them ok.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article ,
Bourne Identity wrote:

I feel sorry for you.

And we reciprocate. ;-)

Just wait until your well fed rats and cockroaches take over your
property. You may live to regret "sparing" them... You feed wild birds,
I'm sure the rats are well fed too.

I learned the hard way to quit having mercy on rats. It was a very
expensive lesson!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

What kind of lizards do you have? :-)

I have an 8-yr-old green iguana, a young savannah monitor, and 3 northern
blue-tongued skinks. Been looking at water dragons, but have managed to
resist so far.

I have two boa constrictors, one is 19 years old (Eve.) 2 rosy boas, 1
African clawed frog, 2 3-toed box turtles and a diamondback terrapin. I
think that's all.

I just dropped 5 bucks on crickets yesterday for my pet bullfrog. She
is still a baby but is really growing fast, so beginning to eat a lot
more! She morphed in early January of this year. I bought her as a
tadpole.

I've always wanted a large frog! G Pretty tame too, especially
compared to leapard frogs. Siggy lets me handle and pet her. She's
about 2" long now and gettng hefty.

I gut load her crickets with a mix of fish food and reptile vitamins.
She has also increased her cricket intake since I put her on moss
instead of fishtank gravel. I think she finds it more comfortable. I
should have used that as substrate in the first place! I was worried
about ease of keeping it clean, but it appears it's actually going to
be easier than rinsing gravel once every couple of weeks.

I also gutload my crickets and mealworms, and I do feed frozen rats and
mice, as I don't enjoy killing them. I have some pet rats also--6 of them
are the hairless variety. They feel like warm felt.

I had an Argentine horned frog for about 10 yrs, but it died recently. I
started out with aquarium gravel for it too, but ended up using the moss.
Much nicer for the frog.

I want to eventually build her a large vivarium once I finish
redecorating the livingroom. Half land and half water. Once she gets
bigger, she really should have access to feeder fish to eat, so that
will require a better aquatic habitat.

Are you going to build a wood one or use an aquarium? I siliconed a divider
across a 50-gal. tank years ago for garter snakes--that worked very well.
Even had baby snakes before I eventually turned the big ones loose again.
(Yes, I know now you're not supposed to turn them loose, but didn't then.)
For a bullfrog I imagine you'd want at least an 80-gal. tank.

You're in the reptile newsgroup too, right? You can get good information
there, although trolls have driven many of the regulars away. There's also
a Houston Herps yahoo group, but it's fairly new and not very active yet.

It's funny how the crickets all swarm the food dish when they are put
in her terrarium. The pet store does not feed them so they are always
very hungry... Poor things! :-(

Also, how are you killing houseflies? I'm having a problem with them
on the sun porch and the usual stinkbait drowning bag trap is not
attracting these for some reason. I've considered Golden Mallorin
(sp?) but the last time I bought it, it did not work very well.

I used to use the stinky drowning traps too, but don't want to anymore as I
can't put them far enough away from the house here in suburbanville to get
away from the stench. I got some new flytraps, but haven't got to test them
yet as they arrived after the flies were gone. I'll have to find the name
and post the url. Remind me if I forget.

I used to keep a pet boa constrictor but I lost her after a very long
(and expensive) fight with some sort of gastrointestinal disorder.
sigh Sucked too. I had her for several years and Babs was a really
nice pet. I won't keep pet snakes anymore. I just don't really have
the space now that we've moved into a smaller house. I always did
feel a bit sorry for the rats. ;-) I've kept pet rats and they are
smart and interesting pets. Too bad they only live about 2 years. My
last pet rat was one of those naked, hairless ones. She only lived
about 1 year. :-(

Many snake owners train their pet snakes to eat fresh frozen rats,
thawed and warmed. It's less risky for the snakes as rat bites during
constriction can be a problem and can get infected. Or, if a rat is
left unattended with a snake that is not ready to eat, the rat can
inflict severe damage to a snake. I've seen horrible photos of that.
:-( I always supervised feedings when I fed live, but I did
eventually switch her to FF thawed rats. She ate them ok.

In article ,
"Cindy" wrote:

What kind of lizards do you have? :-)

I have an 8-yr-old green iguana, a young savannah monitor, and 3 northern
blue-tongued skinks. Been looking at water dragons, but have managed to
resist so far.

lol I know the feeling....
Savanna monitors are pretty cool.
Is it big enough to eat mice?


I have two boa constrictors, one is 19 years old (Eve.) 2 rosy boas, 1
African clawed frog, 2 3-toed box turtles and a diamondback terrapin. I
think that's all.

Clawed frogs look SO cool!
I've drooled over them, but don't really have a proper habitat setup nor
space to put one yet, at least until the livingroom is finished. Siggy
would probably eat it tho' if I housed them together. Bullfrogs do that.

I have 5 ornate box turtles but am fixin' to pass those on to the local
nature center.


I just dropped 5 bucks on crickets yesterday for my pet bullfrog. She
is still a baby but is really growing fast, so beginning to eat a lot
more! She morphed in early January of this year. I bought her as a
tadpole.

I've always wanted a large frog! G Pretty tame too, especially
compared to leapard frogs. Siggy lets me handle and pet her. She's
about 2" long now and gettng hefty.

I gut load her crickets with a mix of fish food and reptile vitamins.
She has also increased her cricket intake since I put her on moss
instead of fishtank gravel. I think she finds it more comfortable. I
should have used that as substrate in the first place! I was worried
about ease of keeping it clean, but it appears it's actually going to
be easier than rinsing gravel once every couple of weeks.

I also gutload my crickets and mealworms, and I do feed frozen rats and
mice, as I don't enjoy killing them. I have some pet rats also--6 of them
are the hairless variety. They feel like warm felt.

Oh cool!
Yeah, I agree that the hairless rats are neat.
It's an autosomal recessive gene.
Do all your babies come out naked, or do you breed them?

I don't feed mealworms but now that I have her on moss, I'm considering
tossing some earthworms in there to see if she will take them. She can
use the variety. I have TONS of the big red wigglers naturalized in the
back yard.


I had an Argentine horned frog for about 10 yrs, but it died recently. I
started out with aquarium gravel for it too, but ended up using the moss.
Much nicer for the frog.

Indeed. And easier than I thought to keep clean. I'm not sure why, but
it seems to be keeping the water cleaner as well? I think the moss is
taking off her sheddings more easily so all that dead skin is not ending
up in the pond.

The crickets seem to stay more active on moss too.


I want to eventually build her a large vivarium once I finish
redecorating the livingroom. Half land and half water. Once she gets
bigger, she really should have access to feeder fish to eat, so that
will require a better aquatic habitat.

Are you going to build a wood one or use an aquarium?

Plan is to use a very large aquarium. At least 50 gallon or more.

I siliconed a divider
across a 50-gal. tank years ago for garter snakes--that worked very well.
Even had baby snakes before I eventually turned the big ones loose again.
(Yes, I know now you're not supposed to turn them loose, but didn't then.)
For a bullfrog I imagine you'd want at least an 80-gal. tank.

Yeah. The bigger the better. Right now she is in a 5 gallon, but she is
still pretty small.


You're in the reptile newsgroup too, right? You can get good information
there, although trolls have driven many of the regulars away. There's also
a Houston Herps yahoo group, but it's fairly new and not very active yet.

I was, but there was not much info. about frogs so I dropped that group.
I was just subscribed to too many there for awhile! lol That's easy to
do!

I've been able to get in touch with bullfrog breeders via various
websites. Since bullfrogs are bred widely for commercial meat production
(frog legs), there are a plethora of websites on care and feeding of
them.

That's how I found out that "Sigmund" was a She. lol Sexing bullfrogs
is simple. The tympanic membrane over the ears of females is only as
large as, or smaller than the eye orbit. In males, it's twice the size
or more. She has very small ears.

It is interesting to me that bullfrogs are widely bred for meat and an
adult breeding pair is worth about $50.00... and yet, due to
overpopulation in some areas, they are considered to be pests, crowding
and/or eating all the other native species of frogs so they are reviled,
and rounded up and destroyed.

I don't understand why some enterprising individual does not dedicate
themselves to gathering them for profit! It's just wierd.

They can be a pond pest in backyard ponds since they will eat fish.
But Heron's do that too. ;-)


It's funny how the crickets all swarm the food dish when they are put
in her terrarium. The pet store does not feed them so they are always
very hungry... Poor things! :-(

Also, how are you killing houseflies? I'm having a problem with them
on the sun porch and the usual stinkbait drowning bag trap is not
attracting these for some reason. I've considered Golden Mallorin
(sp?) but the last time I bought it, it did not work very well.

I used to use the stinky drowning traps too, but don't want to anymore as I
can't put them far enough away from the house here in suburbanville to get
away from the stench. I got some new flytraps, but haven't got to test them
yet as they arrived after the flies were gone. I'll have to find the name
and post the url. Remind me if I forget.

I'd appreciate it!

Oh, and the secret to avoiding the stench of those bag traps is to hang
them HIGH! If they are at least a foot or so above head level, you don't
smell them. I used to hang them from high tree branches.

Now my pet ducks control the flies, outdoors anyway!


Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson