On 18/12/06 11:11, in article ,
"Emery Davis" wrote:

snip

I had always thought most of the south west to be fairly alkaline, is it not?


I don't know what the overall composition is and must remember to ask Ray.
It seems to me to vary considerably almost from field to field. Everyone is
familiar with the red soil of Devon but we are not in that area, although we
are in the South Hams. I imagine our closeness to Dartmoor has a lot to do
with the kind of soil we've ended up with. Ours is pretty well neutral
with odd patches that aren't! But it's a real mix of nice and loamy with
clay underneath, hence the horrible to walk on lawn in winter and the drying
out and cracking in summer, I suppose.
Cornwall, in particular, is Camellia country in large areas.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

In article ,
Emery Davis writes:
|
| I had always thought most of the south west to be fairly alkaline, is it not?

No. It is only so if you use the London definition of the south-west,
which includes Wiltshire and sometimes even Hampshire. The chalk
mostly stops before the south-west proper.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 19 Dec 2006 10:19:59 GMT
(Nick Maclaren) wrote:


In article ,
Emery Davis writes:
|
| I had always thought most of the south west to be fairly alkaline, is it not?

No. It is only so if you use the London definition of the south-west,
which includes Wiltshire and sometimes even Hampshire. The chalk
mostly stops before the south-west proper.


g The London definition as opposed to... HRH's definition? The RHS
definition? The Lib Dem Definition? Just wondering.

Anyway thanks for the clarification. I wonder if there are soil composition
maps available somewhere, perhaps representing mean pH by region,
friability or whatnot. I tried to find such data collections for the
Japanese islands -- and specifically precipitation by month by region --
but to no avail. You'd think at least for Britain someone would have
done a study...

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies

In article ,
Emery Davis writes:
|
| g The London definition as opposed to... HRH's definition? The RHS
| definition? The Lib Dem Definition? Just wondering.

Precisely :-)

| Anyway thanks for the clarification. I wonder if there are soil composition
| maps available somewhere, perhaps representing mean pH by region,
| friability or whatnot. I tried to find such data collections for the
| Japanese islands -- and specifically precipitation by month by region --
| but to no avail. You'd think at least for Britain someone would have
| done a study...

They have. Those are known as maps :-) Geological maps are fairly
easy to locate, and soil composition is one of the things that they
can display. You then have to convert that to pH.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 19 Dec 2006 16:24:48 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:


In article ,
Emery Davis writes:
|
| g The London definition as opposed to... HRH's definition? The RHS
| definition? The Lib Dem Definition? Just wondering.

Precisely :-)

| Anyway thanks for the clarification. I wonder if there are soil composition
| maps available somewhere, perhaps representing mean pH by region,
| friability or whatnot. I tried to find such data collections for the
| Japanese islands -- and specifically precipitation by month by region --
| but to no avail. You'd think at least for Britain someone would have
| done a study...

They have. Those are known as maps :-) Geological maps are fairly
easy to locate, and soil composition is one of the things that they
can display. You then have to convert that to pH.


The British Regional Geology Memoirs published by HMSO have some
limited information on soil types. Much of Devon and Cornwall consists
of slates and shales that weather to neutral or slightly acidic clayey
loams. Granite intrusions down the spine result in poor quality peaty
acid soils. The area east of Dartmoor (Ashburton-Buckfastleigh-
Brixham-Torquay, Sacha's patch) is a right muddle, with other
intrusive igneous rocks as well as slates, red sandstones, small
patches of limestone (e.g. around Buckfastleigh and at Kent's Cavern)
and even a little chalky stuff near Haldon. The red soils of Devon run
approximately due north from Torquay to Exeter and beyond, a
consequence of the underlying red sandstones. As you go further east
through east Devon, Somerset and west Dorset the soils become more
limey, with marls and greensands and eventually chalk proper when you
get into east Dorset and Hampshire.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

On 21/12/06 18:35, in article ,
"Chris Hogg" wrote:

On 19 Dec 2006 16:24:48 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:


In article ,
Emery Davis writes:
|
| g The London definition as opposed to... HRH's definition? The RHS
| definition? The Lib Dem Definition? Just wondering.

Precisely :-)

| Anyway thanks for the clarification. I wonder if there are soil
composition
| maps available somewhere, perhaps representing mean pH by region,
| friability or whatnot. I tried to find such data collections for the
| Japanese islands -- and specifically precipitation by month by region --
| but to no avail. You'd think at least for Britain someone would have
| done a study...

They have. Those are known as maps :-) Geological maps are fairly
easy to locate, and soil composition is one of the things that they
can display. You then have to convert that to pH.


The British Regional Geology Memoirs published by HMSO have some
limited information on soil types. Much of Devon and Cornwall consists
of slates and shales that weather to neutral or slightly acidic clayey
loams. Granite intrusions down the spine result in poor quality peaty
acid soils. The area east of Dartmoor (Ashburton-Buckfastleigh-
Brixham-Torquay, Sacha's patch) is a right muddle, with other
intrusive igneous rocks as well as slates, red sandstones, small
patches of limestone (e.g. around Buckfastleigh and at Kent's Cavern)
and even a little chalky stuff near Haldon. The red soils of Devon run
approximately due north from Torquay to Exeter and beyond, a
consequence of the underlying red sandstones. As you go further east
through east Devon, Somerset and west Dorset the soils become more
limey, with marls and greensands and eventually chalk proper when you
get into east Dorset and Hampshire.

That's absolutely fascinating, Chris and probably explains why one side of
our garden seems different to the other!!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

In article , Sacha writes:
|
| That's absolutely fascinating, Chris and probably explains why one side of
| our garden seems different to the other!!

That's not uncommon. East Anglia is geologically something that makes
that almost the norm! Over the past few million years, it has been
built up from sea bed sand, alluvial detritus, glacial moraine, peat
accumulation, lake and river bed sand, ooze and clay and God alone
knows what else. The layers are often only a foot or so thick, and
area easy to wash away.

Much of it has chalk underneath, but the surface is a right mixture.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 22/12/06 09:30, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article , Sacha
writes:
|
| That's absolutely fascinating, Chris and probably explains why one side of
| our garden seems different to the other!!

That's not uncommon. East Anglia is geologically something that makes
that almost the norm! Over the past few million years, it has been
built up from sea bed sand, alluvial detritus, glacial moraine, peat
accumulation, lake and river bed sand, ooze and clay and God alone
knows what else. The layers are often only a foot or so thick, and
area easy to wash away.

Much of it has chalk underneath, but the surface is a right mixture.


Everything has to start somewhere, of course but it is amusing to see how
strong the differences can be. We planted a much treasured rhododendron on
the 'wrong' side of the garden and the damn thing has all but died, been dug
up and is being nursed along in a pot. OTOH, a little higher up the garden
though on the same side, another of the same variety 'Lady Alice
Fitzwilliam' is flourishing, so perhaps the first was just a duff plant.
The funny thing is that Camellias do well there and rhodies really flourish
on the other side of the garden where Hyams planted the 'rhododendron walk'.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 06:07:02 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 21/12/06 18:35, in article ,
"Chris Hogg" wrote:

The British Regional Geology Memoirs published by HMSO have some
limited information on soil types. Much of Devon and Cornwall consists
of slates and shales that weather to neutral or slightly acidic clayey
loams. Granite intrusions down the spine result in poor quality peaty
acid soils. The area east of Dartmoor (Ashburton-Buckfastleigh-
Brixham-Torquay, Sacha's patch) is a right muddle, with other
intrusive igneous rocks as well as slates, red sandstones, small
patches of limestone (e.g. around Buckfastleigh and at Kent's Cavern)
and even a little chalky stuff near Haldon. The red soils of Devon run
approximately due north from Torquay to Exeter and beyond, a
consequence of the underlying red sandstones. As you go further east
through east Devon, Somerset and west Dorset the soils become more
limey, with marls and greensands and eventually chalk proper when you
get into east Dorset and Hampshire.

That's absolutely fascinating, Chris and probably explains why one side of
our garden seems different to the other!!

Despite my saying the geology's a muddle in your area, the scale of
these things is such that you'd have to be unlucky to be slap bang on
a boundary between two different rock types, but I suppose it does
happen. You could check with your local library to see if they have
the geological map for your area to find out for sure.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

In article ,
Chris Hogg writes:
|
| Despite my saying the geology's a muddle in your area, the scale of
| these things is such that you'd have to be unlucky to be slap bang on
| a boundary between two different rock types, but I suppose it does
| happen. You could check with your local library to see if they have
| the geological map for your area to find out for sure.

Except in East Angular!

Though the word 'rock' is perhaps stretching it a bit :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 22/12/06 19:15, in article ,
"Chris Hogg" wrote:

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 06:07:02 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 21/12/06 18:35, in article ,
"Chris Hogg" wrote:

The British Regional Geology Memoirs published by HMSO have some
limited information on soil types. Much of Devon and Cornwall consists
of slates and shales that weather to neutral or slightly acidic clayey
loams. Granite intrusions down the spine result in poor quality peaty
acid soils. The area east of Dartmoor (Ashburton-Buckfastleigh-
Brixham-Torquay, Sacha's patch) is a right muddle, with other
intrusive igneous rocks as well as slates, red sandstones, small
patches of limestone (e.g. around Buckfastleigh and at Kent's Cavern)
and even a little chalky stuff near Haldon. The red soils of Devon run
approximately due north from Torquay to Exeter and beyond, a
consequence of the underlying red sandstones. As you go further east
through east Devon, Somerset and west Dorset the soils become more
limey, with marls and greensands and eventually chalk proper when you
get into east Dorset and Hampshire.

That's absolutely fascinating, Chris and probably explains why one side of
our garden seems different to the other!!

Despite my saying the geology's a muddle in your area, the scale of
these things is such that you'd have to be unlucky to be slap bang on
a boundary between two different rock types, but I suppose it does
happen. You could check with your local library to see if they have
the geological map for your area to find out for sure.

We could but we probably won't. ;-) Ray has been here 25 years and has
pretty much figured out what works where, though he does like to 'push the
envelope' from time to time.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

Sacha wrote:

Like Crepe Myrtle it's indeed said not to be hardy, but I always thought it
was because of the NY experience. I also admired the C.M. around La Rochelle,
and am determined to grow one at some point. I've heard there is a hardier
cultivar, but have never found out which one it is.

I can't help but I'll ask David P if he know. La Rochelle is what Channel
Islanders call 'around the corner' and it makes a considerable difference as
to climate.

A very late addition admittedly, but I've just been scurrying through
the last month for tid-bits of interest (to me), whilst quaffing very
large glasses of vintage port opened in celebration of Sacha's new
family arrival. (Any excuse really, but this was a much better one
than normal!)

I grew Lagerstroemia (Crepe Myrtle) with very mediocre success outside
in the Midlands where it suffered varying degrees of die-back in winter
and never managed to flower. That was in the '70's. A few years ago,
Sacha & Ray gave me a flowering plant of the lilac-mauve variety 'La
Mousseline' after a trip to France and it has grown very well here.
Admittedly flowering has been sporadic and on a couple of occasions it
has failed to flower at all. I decided earlier this year that it had
become far too 'gangly' and was in desperate need of a hard prune. It
responded by growing far more vigorously than ever before and flowered
prolifically in August and September. I'm sure it can cope with winter
cold, but it needs lots of summer heat if it is to perform well. This
year we had plenty of that and the Lagerstroemia responded accordingly.

We brought a couple back for us and for David
Poole and I think his did pretty well in his v. sheltered, walled garden
whereas ours sulked and only do anything in the greenhouses.

Mine never sulked, but really cutting it back hard tought me that it is
best given fairly brutish treatment. I think the heat build-up here
has also helped. It can become tremendously hot even on a so-so day
and 36 - 38C temps are no rarity, nor are night time mins of 21C
between June and September. Sad anorak that I am, I keep a daily
record throughout the year and during this past summer the average
temperature between May 31st and Sept. 1st was 21C with the average min
of 17C and average max of 27C for those months. Nuff of that, but
suffice to say it was very hot out there and growth rates on all of the
sub-tropicals was phenomenal.

Interesting. Ah, for a walled garden...

David's is minute but a wonderful example of what can be done to create a
micro climate.

Well, yes until everything does as you hope ... and then there's the
problem of excessive growth and what to do with it.

I remember him telling me that one Christmas Day he'd picked
his own oranges to make orange sauce for the roast duck!

Well, I've been picking mini-limes for V&Ts and garnishing chilli over
the past 6 weeks. Looks as though the next oranges won't be ready
until the summer. Can't have everything I suppose ;-)

Now where's that bottle of Taylors '85 gone? Oops - Ido toda!

On 28 Dec 2006 09:58:46 -0800
"DavePoole Torquay" wrote:

[]
I grew Lagerstroemia (Crepe Myrtle) with very mediocre success outside
in the Midlands where it suffered varying degrees of die-back in winter
and never managed to flower. That was in the '70's. A few years ago,
Sacha & Ray gave me a flowering plant of the lilac-mauve variety 'La
Mousseline' after a trip to France and it has grown very well here.
Admittedly flowering has been sporadic and on a couple of occasions it
has failed to flower at all. I decided earlier this year that it had
become far too 'gangly' and was in desperate need of a hard prune. It
responded by growing far more vigorously than ever before and flowered
prolifically in August and September. I'm sure it can cope with winter
cold, but it needs lots of summer heat if it is to perform well. This
year we had plenty of that and the Lagerstroemia responded accordingly.
[]

Thanks much, that's noted!

Now where's that bottle of Taylors '85 gone? Oops - Ido toda!


Hmm, not the same pedigree, but I did just have a nice glass of
Taylor's 10 year...

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies

In article .com,
"DavePoole Torquay" writes:
|
| ... I'm sure it can cope with winter
| cold, but it needs lots of summer heat if it is to perform well. This
| year we had plenty of that and the Lagerstroemia responded accordingly.


Aargh! YOU may have done, but most of the country didn't!

Yes, July was unusually hot and dry, but it was wet and gloomy from
the beginning of August onwards - none of my vegetables that need a
decent late summer did at all well. And, here, it wasn't warm enough
to get plants to cropping state by the start of July :-(

The same applied even to some flowers - I had damn few on my passion
flowers, though a hell of a lot of foliage.

Not all parts were as wet, but most were as gloomy. Yes, it was warm,
but warmth and sunlight aren't the same, and there wasn't a single
HOT day after the end of July :-(

Let's see if my Albizia keeps its new growth through the winter.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:

I'm sure it can cope with winter cold, but it needs lots of summer heat if it is to perform well. This year we had plenty of that and the Lagerstroemia responded accordingly.

Aargh! YOU may have done, but most of the country didn't!

Yes, July was unusually hot and dry, but it was wet and gloomy from
the beginning of August onwards - none of my vegetables that need a
decent late summer did at all well. And, here, it wasn't warm enough
to get plants to cropping state by the start of July :-(

I'll try not to rub it in Nick, but we had magnificent weather right
through. Even August was pretty good, although not as good as June and
July, which I'm sure spoilt everyone's expectations. Most of the rain
and grey stuff seemed to be shunted north and east ... possibly in your
direction?

Not all parts were as wet, but most were as gloomy. Yes, it was warm,
but warmth and sunlight aren't the same, and there wasn't a single
HOT day after the end of July :-(

We had 12 days above 30C in July and only 3 in August, so by that
definition it wasn't as hot. However the number of days above 24C was
about the same and night time lows remained as high. As to rain, we
did have some, but we also had a fair amount of sun - just about
average for this region in August. It was enough to persuade my clump
of Crinum moorei to produce a second crop of flower spikes, which gave
a wonderful repeat show in September. Many of the South African
succulents (Lampranthus, Delosperma etc. also gave a good second show
towards the end of August and a climbing Aloe (A. ciliata) was
persuaded to produce again, festooned in spikes of vivid scarlet
'cigars', by early September.

Let's see if my Albizia keeps its new growth through the winter.

Depends upon how long it gets before the first hard frosts. A wet or
dull end to summer means that the shoots don't harden as well as they
might. Hot dry Augusts and Septembers are best for that. A long, slow
build up to the cold weather can help, fingers crossed eh?