The message
from "middleton.walker" contains these words:

Does the Grand Master have to give a left handed handshake or walk
barefooted having lost both slippers?

Don't be silly! that's Akela, when someone calls at the door the morning
after the night before.

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

--
..
"middleton.walker" wrote in message
...

. Next
to a belief in a Supreme Being, .....someone posted that a question was
asked aboutbelief in God...that old me that person knew not what she/he
was saying....it refers to a Supreme Being and not God



Like

The Supreme Being

The names used for the Supreme Being enable men of different faiths to join
in prayer (to God as each sees Him) without the terms of the prayer causing
dissention among them.

There is no separate Masonic God; a Freemason's God remains the God of the
religion he professes.

Freemasons meet in common respect for the Supreme Being, but He remains
Supreme in their individual religions, and it is no part of Freemasonry to
attempt to join religions together. There is therefore no composite Masonic
God.


From the web site.

Nothing secret

Mike
The truth will prevail

On 29/11/05 15:12, in article
, "La puce"
wrote:


Sacha wrote:
Unfortunately, given the intended focus of this group and the irrelevant
posts on Freemasonry, that has to be corrected to 'most Freemasons respect
and observe'. But I agree, I don't know of any Freemason - and I've known
several, including a Grand Master of his Lodge - who would discuss
Freemasonry in this way. I do wonder what Crowe's fellow Masons would think
of his behaviour.

Oh I don't know. I knew of a freemason gentlemen, and I mean it, a
darling of a man who contacted me from another forum years ago when he
found out that I was involved in housing. He and his fellow masons
wanted to provide good will, presence and money to the children of Moss
Side in Manchester. I was indeed totally gobsmacked. However, I tried
to help as much as I could and I found the nice fellow a few weeks
later giving leaflets outside ASDA with advice on sport activities the
masons where sponsoring at a nearby water leisure centre.

I therefore don't think it's all a big secret. Maybe there's some
secret deals done between members. I cannot blame them for helping each
other especially when large sums of money is involved.


I don't deny for one minute that the Masons do a great deal of good. In
fact, I know they do and I absolutely agree with you that SOME of them do
good by stealth, unlike Crowe whose approach to everything is to brag like a
15 year old boy with his first girlfriend.
What I am astounded at, as are my Masonic friends, is Crowe's way of
speaking about it. Not only has it absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with
this group, YET AGAIN, his attitude is cheap and disrespectful and IMO, has
everything to do with his favourite Internet activity which is displaying a
degree of narcissism unparalleled in this group. You may not have noticed
but Crowe has spent the last few days jumping up and down, waving flags and
blowing whistles to get attention - something he does with unrelenting
regularity here. He has 'mentioned' that he is going on a cruise something
like 4 times in the last week and at least the same number of times a month
or two ago; now we have him as an expert bird feeder and a probable Master
of more than one Masonic Lodge. This last is just another desperate throw
of the Crowe dice to get someone - anyone - to talk to him and pay him some
attention. He doesn't care who it is and he doesn't care what the subject
is about, as long as it's not gardening because he admits himself that he
knows absolutely nothing whatsoever about the focal topic of
uk.rec.gardening. The man is a monster and a menace and in my opinion,
he's full of it.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

On 29/11/05 17:10, in article
, "Mike"
wrote:

Like

The Supreme Being

The names used for the Supreme Being enable men of different faiths to join
in prayer (to God as each sees Him) without the terms of the prayer causing
dissention among them.


Freemasons do not refer to God as the Supreme Being.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
On 29/11/05 15:12, in article
, "La puce"
wrote:


Sacha wrote:

.. He doesn't care who it is and he doesn't care what the subject
is about, as long as it's not gardening because he admits himself that he
knows absolutely nothing whatsoever about the focal topic of
uk.rec.gardening. The man is a monster and a menace and in my opinion,
he's full of it.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

What is the current definition of "IT"

"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
On 29/11/05 17:10, in article
, "Mike"
wrote:

Like

The Supreme Being

The names used for the Supreme Being enable men of different faiths to
join
in prayer (to God as each sees Him) without the terms of the prayer
causing
dissention among them.


Freemasons do not refer to God as the Supreme Being.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Perhaps it was you then that said the question referred to god rather than
the Supreme Being.....it is my understanding that when questioned about
belief the question does indeed pertain to a belief in a Supreme Being and
not a belief in God.....suspect Mr. Mike is an authority on this subject and
I will bow to his hnowledge as he seems to know what he is talking
about.....unless of course he is not a Master Mason and has not gone thru
the various stages to lodge master etc. etc.

--
..
"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
On 29/11/05 17:10, in article
, "Mike"
wrote:

Like

The Supreme Being

The names used for the Supreme Being enable men of different faiths to
join
in prayer (to God as each sees Him) without the terms of the prayer
causing
dissention among them.


Freemasons do not refer to God as the Supreme Being.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)


Oh dear, L/Cpl Sacha of the Devon Battalion of the Woman's Land Army spouts
her mouth off again and AGAIN gets it wrong.

Sacha sweetie :-)) that was taken from the United Grand Lodge of England web
site

ooops

got it wrong agian sweetie :-))

:-))

Mike
The truth WILL prevail

Thinks
I wonder why she bothers!!!!!!!!!

--
..
"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
On 29/11/05 15:12, in article
, "La puce"
wrote:


Sacha wrote:
Unfortunately, given the intended focus of this group and the
irrelevant
posts on Freemasonry, that has to be corrected to 'most Freemasons
respect
and observe'. But I agree, I don't know of any Freemason - and I've
known
several, including a Grand Master of his Lodge - who would discuss
Freemasonry in this way. I do wonder what Crowe's fellow Masons would
think
of his behaviour.

Oh I don't know. I knew of a freemason gentlemen, and I mean it, a
darling of a man who contacted me from another forum years ago when he
found out that I was involved in housing. He and his fellow masons
wanted to provide good will, presence and money to the children of Moss
Side in Manchester. I was indeed totally gobsmacked. However, I tried
to help as much as I could and I found the nice fellow a few weeks
later giving leaflets outside ASDA with advice on sport activities the
masons where sponsoring at a nearby water leisure centre.

I therefore don't think it's all a big secret. Maybe there's some
secret deals done between members. I cannot blame them for helping each
other especially when large sums of money is involved.


I don't deny for one minute that the Masons do a great deal of good. In
fact, I know they do and I absolutely agree with you that SOME of them do
good by stealth, unlike Crowe whose approach to everything is to brag like
a
15 year old boy with his first girlfriend.
What I am astounded at, as are my Masonic friends, is Crowe's way of
speaking about it. Not only has it absolutely nothing whatsoever to do
with
this group, YET AGAIN, his attitude is cheap and disrespectful and IMO,
has
everything to do with his favourite Internet activity which is displaying
a
degree of narcissism unparalleled in this group. You may not have
noticed
but Crowe has spent the last few days jumping up and down, waving flags
and
blowing whistles to get attention - something he does with unrelenting
regularity here. He has 'mentioned' that he is going on a cruise
something
like 4 times in the last week and at least the same number of times a
month
or two ago; now we have him as an expert bird feeder and a probable Master
of more than one Masonic Lodge. This last is just another desperate throw
of the Crowe dice to get someone - anyone - to talk to him and pay him
some
attention. He doesn't care who it is and he doesn't care what the subject
is about, as long as it's not gardening because he admits himself that he
knows absolutely nothing whatsoever about the focal topic of
uk.rec.gardening. The man is a monster and a menace and in my opinion,
he's full of it.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)


Have you not read the DEVON, (you live in Devon I believe) web page of the
Grand Lodge of England?

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do read and do some form of stuy on a subject you
know sod all about.

You only show yourself up

Mike
Oh Dear. The truth really is prevailing :-))))

Now there's a good girl, Get a glass of water and do some reading. You are
showing yourself up amogst people who you 'think' respect you.

Now I don't want to see another tirade from you until at least midday
tomorrow.

Bye

On 29/11/05 17:27, in article
, "Sacha"
wrote:

On 29/11/05 17:10, in article
, "Mike"
wrote:

Like

The Supreme Being

The names used for the Supreme Being enable men of different faiths to join
in prayer (to God as each sees Him) without the terms of the prayer causing
dissention among them.


Freemasons do not refer to God as the Supreme Being.

"Belief in the

Great Architect of the Universe

A Historical Tenet of Freemasonry

By BRO. GILBERT W. DAYNES, England

TODAY, Freemasons, in almost every Grand Lodge, recognize that an abiding
belief in God, the Great Architect of the Universe -is the solid foundation
upon which the Masonic edifice rests.
(rest of article omitted)
© The Regular Grand Lodge of England 2005"

On 29/11/05 18:01, in article ,
"martin" wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:55:17 +0000, Sacha
wrote:
snip
TODAY, Freemasons, in almost every Grand Lodge, recognize that an abiding
belief in God, the Great Architect of the Universe -is the solid foundation
upon which the Masonic edifice rests.
(rest of article omitted)
© The Regular Grand Lodge of England 2005"

http://www.grandlodgeofvirginia.org/whomason.htm#who
"Who Can Qualify To Join?

Applicants must be men of good character who believe in a Supreme
Being. To become a Mason one must petition a particular Lodge. The
Master of the Lodge appoints a committee to visit the applicant prior
to the Lodge balloting upon his petition."

http://www.grandlodge-england.org/ma...d-religion.htm

"The Supreme Being

The names used for the Supreme Being enable men of different faiths to
join in prayer (to God as each sees Him) without the terms of the
prayer causing dissention among them.

There is no separate Masonic God; a Freemason's God remains the God of
the religion he professes.

Freemasons meet in common respect for the Supreme Being, but He
remains Supreme in their individual religions, and it is no part of
Freemasonry to attempt to join religions together. There is therefore
no composite Masonic God."

It seems some do and some don't. How about calling it a draw?

How about Crowe not using urg to boast about himself? I suggest you
recommend that to him and that you stop stirring the pot with snide remarks
about me to your futile little chum.
The simple fact is that the Supreme Being is used to acknowledge the
different religious beliefs of different Masons and whatever they,
themselves, call God. Masons, as a body refer to God *exactly* as I wrote.
I learned that more than 12 years ago.
And yes, as far as I'm concerned, this is finished. Crowe's attempts at
self-promotion have been exposed for precisely what they are which is good
enough. I'm sure we'll all wait with bated breath for photos of him in his
Master's regalia.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

On 29/11/05 15:21, in article
, "Mike"
wrote:

I have been pondering on Sacha's damn stupid statements for quite some time
and have come to the conclusion that her 'so called friends and Masons' are
no longer Masons. A bold statement I know, but Provincial and Grand Lodge
have been stating for a long time that the hush hush side of Freemasonry is
dea and buried and we must be more open and tell and help the public more,
just as your friend did and does.

There is another reason why Sacha's friends and Masons are not in touch with
today's Masonic Fraternity, and that is because they are not "active"
Masons. Don't attend their Lodge for meetings, and don't make any
contribution to the Fraternity, except old aged customs. Possibly not been
inside their Lodge rooms for years and certainly don't listen to the VGO at
the Festive Board.

Nice to see you remain true to the same old tactics, Crowe. You have been
'pondering' on my statements for some time, have you? I only made them at
mid-day today and it isn't 6pm yet. Even on the Planet Crowe that hardly
makes it 'some time'. And you move from you 'have come to the conclusion'
to stating your conclusions as facts. This despite the fact that you don't
know me, you don't know the Masons I know and you have no idea to which
Lodges they belong.
But this won't wash because I know your habit is to tell your jumped up
stories and then attempt to attack the probity of others who show you up for
what you are. The Masons I know attend their Lodge meetings on a regular
basis but the Mason I know best was Master of his Lodge and he attends every
meeting of that Lodge, every month, regular as clockwork, as do relatives of
his. He has to be very ill to prevent him from going. It is from that
person that I did, indeed, learn more about Freemasonry - I also learned
that there are a lot of people who like to pretend to be Masons if they
think it will advance them with others, and that there are PLENTY who become
Masons for that reason alone. Strictly speaking, they are frowned upon, but
nonetheless can reach influential positions within Freemasonry if there are
not enough others prepared or able to take on the various tasks and roles of
a Mason within his Lodge. It can be an expensive business for someone on a
tight income. People may draw their own conclusions as to which of these
categories would-be Master Crowe falls into.
I have no objection to people being Freemasons if that's what they want to
do; I have no interest in whether you are a Freemason or not, none; what I
DO object to is you, boastful as always, using that brotherhood to attempt
to advance yourself on a newsgroup. What on earth is the *matter* with you
that you feel the compulsion to do that - to brag endlessly about your
pocket handkerchief back lawn, your money, your son's money and car, your
cruise (ye gods, nobody else here has ever gone on a cruise!) your
connections, your 'knowing how to do things properly because my people were
hoteliers', which made a bigger fool out of you than you will ever realise
or admit to with its twee suburban table manners. Give it a rest, Crowe -
all you're doing is making yourself even more of a laughing stock - imagine
being the sort of person who feels it necessary to *boast* about being a
Freemason!
You're a joke and not even a good one.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

A top posting for a change........my oh my does this newgroup ever get
personal....I wonder how many ever take it seriously...I suspect Mr. Crowe
does fwhat he does just for the devil of it and some take the bait......




"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
On 29/11/05 15:21, in article
, "Mike"
wrote:

I have been pondering on Sacha's damn stupid statements for quite some
time
and have come to the conclusion that her 'so called friends and Masons'
are
no longer Masons. A bold statement I know, but Provincial and Grand Lodge
have been stating for a long time that the hush hush side of Freemasonry
is
dea and buried and we must be more open and tell and help the public
more,
just as your friend did and does.

There is another reason why Sacha's friends and Masons are not in touch
with
today's Masonic Fraternity, and that is because they are not "active"
Masons. Don't attend their Lodge for meetings, and don't make any
contribution to the Fraternity, except old aged customs. Possibly not
been
inside their Lodge rooms for years and certainly don't listen to the VGO
at
the Festive Board.

Nice to see you remain true to the same old tactics, Crowe. You have been
'pondering' on my statements for some time, have you? I only made them at
mid-day today and it isn't 6pm yet. Even on the Planet Crowe that hardly
makes it 'some time'. And you move from you 'have come to the conclusion'
to stating your conclusions as facts. This despite the fact that you
don't
know me, you don't know the Masons I know and you have no idea to which
Lodges they belong.
But this won't wash because I know your habit is to tell your jumped up
stories and then attempt to attack the probity of others who show you up
for
what you are. The Masons I know attend their Lodge meetings on a regular
basis but the Mason I know best was Master of his Lodge and he attends
every
meeting of that Lodge, every month, regular as clockwork, as do relatives
of
his. He has to be very ill to prevent him from going. It is from that
person that I did, indeed, learn more about Freemasonry - I also learned
that there are a lot of people who like to pretend to be Masons if they
think it will advance them with others, and that there are PLENTY who
become
Masons for that reason alone. Strictly speaking, they are frowned upon,
but
nonetheless can reach influential positions within Freemasonry if there
are
not enough others prepared or able to take on the various tasks and roles
of
a Mason within his Lodge. It can be an expensive business for someone on
a
tight income. People may draw their own conclusions as to which of these
categories would-be Master Crowe falls into.
I have no objection to people being Freemasons if that's what they want to
do; I have no interest in whether you are a Freemason or not, none; what I
DO object to is you, boastful as always, using that brotherhood to attempt
to advance yourself on a newsgroup. What on earth is the *matter* with
you
that you feel the compulsion to do that - to brag endlessly about your
pocket handkerchief back lawn, your money, your son's money and car, your
cruise (ye gods, nobody else here has ever gone on a cruise!) your
connections, your 'knowing how to do things properly because my people
were
hoteliers', which made a bigger fool out of you than you will ever realise
or admit to with its twee suburban table manners. Give it a rest, Crowe -
all you're doing is making yourself even more of a laughing stock -
imagine
being the sort of person who feels it necessary to *boast* about being a
Freemason!
You're a joke and not even a good one.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "middleton.walker" contains these
words:

Does the Grand Master have to give a left handed handshake or walk
barefooted having lost both slippers?

Don't be silly! that's Akela, when someone calls at the door the morning
after the night before.

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

aw shucks......must have gotten that one wrong.....

Happy now?

:-((

--
..
"middleton.walker" wrote in message
...
A top posting for a change........my oh my does this newgroup ever get
personal....I wonder how many ever take it seriously...I suspect Mr. Crowe
does fwhat he does just for the devil of it and some take the bait......


I take Freemasonry very seriously for the people it helps. I get rather
annoyed when someone knocks it, as L/Cpl Sascha of the Devon Battalion of
the Woman's Land Army has. She has proved that she knows sod all about
Freemasonry other that what 'She has been told' and I am afraid that what
she 'has' been told, is from Masons who are not in touch with Freemasonry in
the 21st Century and the way which not only Province, but Grand Lodge is
going. I have done a count up of non active Masons in my Lodge. I joined
Freemasonry on 15th Septemebr 1988 (I have to put that in so it can be
checked to prove I am NOT LYING 'cos I never knowingly lie). Of the 65
members listed on my list of members, 5 I have never met and I do not know.
Now this is a Lodge where I am in the Chair in 2007. I has just been
excluded for non payment of fees and I have not seen him in 2 years and 3
others I have not seen, yes they are paid up members, but I have not seen
them in a couple of years. They are Freemasons. How do they know of what is
going on? The openess? What Grand Lodge are saying? Well there you are and
that is L/Cpl Sascha of the 2ND Battalion of Light Border Spades.

I defend Freemasonry across quite a few newsgroups and every time, I attract
more members who ask me about Freemasonry. I refer them to the Grand Lodge
web site and their own local Masonic Fraternity.

ONE DAY, she will realise she is talking from where the sun don't shine, but
I regret I will never get an apology and she will continue to give
Freemasonry a bad name. There is one very great consolation. Freemasonry
will still be alive and well long after she is pushing up Dasies. To get it
back on a Gardening theme :-))

Mike
The truth WILL prevail