The Invalid wrote:
Picked some apples from our tree yesterday and most of them had
maggots in. All seemed to have got in from the base of the apple in
the middle.
Will I need to put a tar band round the tree or are the eggs injected
in by flying bugs ?

I'm going to get rid of my apple tree this winter - I'll try to
transplant it to the lotty but I fear it might be too big even to do
this.

I've battled with moths for 6 years now. I've ringed it every year and
used a trap with pheromones to attract the males moths - lots were in
there but still got very few apples even though we had a spectacular
show of flowers each spring.

I have however discovered that hawthorns are bad in the vacinity of
apple trees. I have two hawthorns within 5 metres of the tree! So it's
goodbye to my apple tree (

La Puce wrote:

I'm going to get rid of my apple tree this winter - I'll try to
transplant it to the lotty but I fear it might be too big even to do
this.

I have however discovered that hawthorns are bad in the vacinity of
apple trees. I have two hawthorns within 5 metres of the tree! So it's
goodbye to my apple tree (

Very sad to loose an apple tree. You are right, hawthorne or for that
matter most of the roseaceae family, seem to be a problem, which is a
shame.

I have a tree - which too 5 years to bear fruit to identify what it
was, has suffered from scab, canker, codling and tortrix moth. Despite
my best efforts this year it produced 8 edible fruits. Turns out it is
Laxtons Fortune, so unfortunately I will be cutting it back and
grafting a something else on to the trunk.

It might be worth working your way throuogh Martin Crawford's book -
Directory of Apple Cultivars. In there he details over 3000 cultivars,
and has a column for Codling moth indicating wheather the cultivar is
susceptible or resistance to Codling moth.

There is another moth that affects apples Tortrix moth, this one can be
identified because the leaf is folded over the hole in the apple.
Again can be controlled via pheromone traps.

Clifford
Bawtry, Doncaster. South Yorkshire

cliff_the_gardener wrote:
Very sad to loose an apple tree. You are right, hawthorne or for that
matter most of the roseaceae family, seem to be a problem, which is a
shame.

Would you beleive, I didn't have not only 2 hawthorns, but a
magnificent floribonda, white pompoms, scented like heaven and the
profusion this year was amazing. I said was, I severely reduced it down
on Sunday. I'm having a 'spring cleaning' .... here are the roses at
the back, on the left there's the apple, but you can't see it on this.

http://cjoint.com/?jmqhMTTdAx

I have a tree - which too 5 years to bear fruit to identify what it
was, has suffered from scab, canker, codling and tortrix moth. Despite
my best efforts this year it produced 8 edible fruits. Turns out it is
Laxtons Fortune, so unfortunately I will be cutting it back and
grafting a something else on to the trunk.

I'm not sure what my apple tree is. It's pathetic but I got it on a
whim of my youngest son, who said that the apples on the picture looked
like the one of the wicked witch in Snow White, bright red and huge.

Here the apple, if you perhaps can identify it? I've never had huge
bright red apples on it, perhaps one a couple of years ago ....

http://cjoint.com/?jmqmy4TbmE

But grafting .... I never thought of this! Can I graft on say a trunk
of about 10cm circumference?

It might be worth working your way throuogh Martin Crawford's book -
Directory of Apple Cultivars. In there he details over 3000 cultivars,
and has a column for Codling moth indicating wheather the cultivar is
susceptible or resistance to Codling moth.
There is another moth that affects apples Tortrix moth, this one can be
identified because the leaf is folded over the hole in the apple.
Again can be controlled via pheromone traps.

I haven' t had much time to look into it all, I'm only thinking of the
pergola I'm going to construct instead of the apple tree - but if I can
save that tree, it would be nice indeed.

La Puce

Like the containers and azalea.
As for identifying the apple - cant tell by just looking at it on the
screen - no where near that cleaver. I have to work through the
measurements, cutting them open, takes a minimum of 3 but was told to
work on half a bucket - because the features from apple to apple can be
so variable.

But grafting .... I never thought of this! Can I graft on say a trunk
of about 10cm circumference?

It is very possible to graft onto a trunk by a process known as
topworking and the graft technique is done by cleft grafting. This is
done in the dormant season - usually Feb-March. Basically the main
limbs except a couple of branches, which are left to give the sap
something to rise too and are known as sap-drawer branches, are removed
leaving a couple of feet of stump of the main limbs. The edge of the
saw cuts are pared with a knife. The scions is a piece of last seasons
growth of the cultivar you want to cultivate, around 6in in legth and
about the thickness of a pencil. Once prepared, these are inserted
into the cut ends of the limbs. The scion is cut so that the top has a
bud at its end and the other is cut to form a wedge cut on either side
(I knew that my childhood whitling of wood must have a use) so that
there is a bud left on the side of the wedge cut. On the edge of the
stump a vertical cut is made using a chisle into the stump, so the cut
gones. The depth of the cut being the same as the length of the wedge.
This is a brutal process for the tree so you need to have a little
respect, be clean in making cuts and dont damage the bark. The cut is
held open (a flat blade screwdriver is good) and the wedge inserted and
the edge of the bark cut on the wedge aligned with the bark of the
limb. They need to touch. Three pieces of wood can be put into each
limb like this. Having done this fill the top of the cuts with clay or
putty and then seal the whole graft and scion with grafting wax. The
clay or putty stops the wax running down the cut which might prevent
the cut from healing. The idea of the wax is to seal out all the
baddies. I generally run a damp cloth (which has been in Milton or
other Sodium Hypochlorite solution) around the cut so as to reduce the
chance of infection. It sounds far worse than it is. Just aligning
the cambium layers of the tree and the scion by at least 55% should
give a chance of success, provided it does not dry out or the tree id
not stressed by drought. The process can then be repeated on other
branches. This is where you get into making these multy variety apple
trees - Egremont russet this side, discovery over here, that nice one
from across the road.

Last month I visited an orchard which was planted around 1870 and
basically consited of Bramley apples and Victoria plums. The lady who
looked after it from 1920 had some fun with it, all of a sudden you
could spot some Emneth Early or what I think is Tydemans Early
Worcester just appearing off a bough. These were most likely done in a
similar way, just making a wedge and inseting the wood into a T cut in
the bark.

If you want any further help feel free to ask (cliff_the_gardener at
hotmail dot co dot uk)

Clifford
Bawtry, Doncaster, South Yorkshire

cliff_the_gardener wrote:
It is very possible to graft onto a trunk by a process known as
topworking and the graft technique is done by cleft grafting.

Cliff, thank you so much for this. I have done some grafting a few
times (Lancaster's Middlewood and during a C and G course, but only on
'twig' size. I never thought I could do it on an older tree. I'm
emailing you with a couple of questions - I fancy moving the tree and
then grafting, it could be my winter project. Thanks again.

On 12 Sep 2006 02:32:14 -0700, "La Puce" wrote:



I've battled with moths for 6 years now. I've ringed it every year and
used a trap with pheromones to attract the males moths - lots were in
there but still got very few apples even though we had a spectacular
show of flowers each spring.

I have however discovered that hawthorns are bad in the vacinity of
apple trees. I have two hawthorns within 5 metres of the tree! So it's
goodbye to my apple tree (

We have a whole hedge of hawthorns plus one tree within 5 metres and the apples have very
few problems. We did use band 2 years running and a pheremone trap the next year but I
have done nothing since.

Kath

wrote:
We have a whole hedge of hawthorns plus one tree within 5 metres and the apples have very
few problems. We did use band 2 years running and a pheremone trap the next year but I
have done nothing since.

Consider yourself lucky then! I have since talked to friends gardeners
and most knew that plants from the roseaceae family are not recommended
next to apple trees. I kept saying 'why didn't you tell me!!'...
However, yesterday, at our lotty centinery party, a old chap told me
that he had 2 trees next to a hawthorn edge in Romiley, at about less
than 10m. I'm therefore wondering if the distance has something to do
with it but also the situation. Is it a root problem, or a pest
problem? The situation, be it windy, sheltered, on a hill from the
hawthorn etc. could perhaps play a role in the problems?!

In article . com,
cliff_the_gardener writes

It is very possible to graft onto a trunk by a process known as
topworking and the graft technique is done by cleft grafting. This is
done in the dormant season - usually Feb-March. Basically

SNIP

This is where you get into making these multy variety apple
trees - Egremont russet this side, discovery over here, that nice one
from across the road.
If you want any further help feel free to ask (cliff_the_gardener at
hotmail dot co dot uk)



Cliff, are there easily followed graphics for the technique? We did do
a little of this propagation in the RHS course but not on an apple tree
type scale. I was thinking of planting another apple tree where our red
oak was cut down, but would like to play around with grafting etc if I
could. Would it be possible to put the necessary pollinators on one
tree?

Is there a list or book you would recommend, regarding types of soil and
apple varieties?
Janet

--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article ,
writes
On 12 Sep 2006 02:32:14 -0700, "La Puce" wrote:



I've battled with moths for 6 years now. I've ringed it every year and
used a trap with pheromones to attract the males moths - lots were in
there but still got very few apples even though we had a spectacular
show of flowers each spring.

I have however discovered that hawthorns are bad in the vacinity of
apple trees. I have two hawthorns within 5 metres of the tree! So it's
goodbye to my apple tree (

We have a whole hedge of hawthorns plus one tree within 5 metres and
the apples have very
few problems. We did use band 2 years running and a pheremone trap the
next year but I
have done nothing since.

Kath


We have 200 foot of hawthorn between each house in this road. It's 8
foot high on average, plus numerous hawthorn trees and my Granny smith
tree isn't unduly bothered by pests and I certainly don't treat it. Plus
many neighbours have very productive apple trees in their gardens.

If you are going down that route then no one should have Eunonymus trees
(e.g. the Spindle tree) near broad beans as they harbour black fly in
the winter etc, etc. Though quite why hawthorn should be bad for apple
trees isn't in any book I have.

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

Janet Tweedy wrote:
Though quite why hawthorn should be bad for apple
trees isn't in any book I have.

The only caution is not to plant it near apple or pear orchards, since
it is associated with fireblight disease in these trees. The bacterium
Erwinia amylovora hosts include hawthorn (which I have), amelanchier
(which I have) chaenomeles (which I have), cotoneaster (with I have),
quince (which I have), photinia, pyracantha .... All of those that I
have are situated in my front garden and all surround my apple tree.

Amazing bad luck I know.

In reply to La Puce ) who wrote this in
, I, Marvo, say :

Janet Tweedy wrote:
Though quite why hawthorn should be bad for apple
trees isn't in any book I have.

The only caution is not to plant it near apple or pear orchards, since
it is associated with fireblight disease in these trees. The bacterium
Erwinia amylovora hosts include hawthorn (which I have), amelanchier
(which I have) chaenomeles (which I have), cotoneaster (with I have),
quince (which I have), photinia, pyracantha .... All of those that I
have are situated in my front garden and all surround my apple tree.

Amazing bad luck I know.

I've got a pyracantha which you can have ...

Uncle Marvo wrote:
In reply to La Puce ) who wrote this in
The only caution is not to plant it near apple or pear orchards, since
it is associated with fireblight disease in these trees. The bacterium
Erwinia amylovora hosts include hawthorn (which I have), amelanchier
(which I have) chaenomeles (which I have), cotoneaster (with I have),
quince (which I have), photinia, pyracantha .... All of those that I
have are situated in my front garden and all surround my apple tree.
Amazing bad luck I know.

I've got a pyracantha which you can have ...

LOL!! No really LOL!!! You ....

Uncle Marvo writes
In reply to La Puce ) who wrote this in
. com, I, Marvo, say :

Janet Tweedy wrote:
Though quite why hawthorn should be bad for apple
trees isn't in any book I have.

The only caution is not to plant it near apple or pear orchards, since
it is associated with fireblight disease in these trees. The bacterium
Erwinia amylovora hosts include hawthorn (which I have), amelanchier
(which I have) chaenomeles (which I have), cotoneaster (with I have),
quince (which I have), photinia, pyracantha .... All of those that I
have are situated in my front garden and all surround my apple tree.

Amazing bad luck I know.

I've got a pyracantha which you can have ...

I wonder to what extent fireblight is a problem with apples in the UK. I
ask since hawthorn is one of our most widely used hedging plants,
including in the fruit growing areas of Kent and Worcestershire.



--
Kay

In article , Uncle Marvo
writes
In reply to La Puce ) who wrote this in
. com, I, Marvo, say :

Janet Tweedy wrote:
Though quite why hawthorn should be bad for apple
trees isn't in any book I have.

The only caution is not to plant it near apple or pear orchards, since
it is associated with fireblight disease in these trees.
I've had fireblight in a Pyracantha grown in a small bed by the side of
the front door then trained horizontally under a bay window as the drive
comes up to the wall.
I cut it all back about 8 years ago and it started to grow again after
about 2 years. It's now nearly back to what it was. The other trees
around have not been touched.

janet



--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

Hello Janet
Sorry fro the delay - had a day out at Brogale Sunday - just getting
over it now.
The best book I can recommend for grafting is an oldy but goody
The Grafters Handbook, R J Garner ISBN 0304321729 I paid £6 for my
ex libary copy (so thanks go to Dudley Libary) There are pictures in
there.
I am not familiar with pictures on the net, but googled this link:-
http://www.powen.freeserve.co.uk/adv...topworking.htm
..
As for soil conditions etc, I would repeat my recomendation for Martin
Crawfod's book Directory of Apple Cultivars available from
www.agroforestry.co.uk
..
In terms of mixing cultivars on a tree it can be done - sold as family
trees. Personally I am not a fan because many of the cultivars mixed
are picked bucause the public know the names, rather than matching the
vigour of the plant. My preference is to grow as cordons, as the trees
can be planted at a between plant 75cm x 3m rows
..
Clifford
Bawtry, Doncaster, South Yorkshire