On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:06:23 +0000, Frank Erskine
wrote:

Power cuts can and do happen without cables being nicked. If that power is
essential, backup should be provided.

Hospitals always (?) have standby alternators, but what about, for
example, renal dialysis machines used in private homes? Or all these
type of things battery powered nowadays? Indeed, are such things used
at all now? :-)

Do you seriously believe that any sensible person would arrange things
so that their very life depended on the mains power not failing over a
protracted time? If so, perhaps they are more eligible for the
"Darwin award" than the people in question.

All electrically operated life-support machines invariably have an
alternate power source that will switch in automatically in the event
of a mains failure. Perhaps it will be a battery that will only last
an hour or so - in which case there ought to be a small generator or
some other contingency plan available for use in the event that the
mains is not restored in time. Quite a number of non-deliberate
events can cause power failures that last for several days - or in
extreme cases several weeks.

--
Cynic

In article ,
®i©ardo wrote:
Your attitude seems to be: "F*ck the thousands of innocent people who
potentially suffer because of attacks of wanton vandalism and theft such
as these, it is far better that they do so than the guilty be punished
in any way - even if it be by their own stupidity".

You seem to love making things up as I've never even implied that thieves
go unpunished.

How dare you have such contempt for society - a contempt at least as
great as those who commit such acts. The potential outcome is no
different to planting bombs amongst innocent civilians by the IRA.

There is no one potential outcome - it depends on circumstances.
Tell me, are you a headline writer for a tabloid? You seem to see things
in a black and white way.

You also should consider the difference between setting out to kill
someone and the possible result of a simple theft. But it's probably too
hard for you.

--
*Horn broken. - Watch for finger.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
®i©ardo wrote:
Your attitude seems to be: "F*ck the thousands of innocent people who
potentially suffer because of attacks of wanton vandalism and theft such
as these, it is far better that they do so than the guilty be punished
in any way - even if it be by their own stupidity".

You seem to love making things up as I've never even implied that thieves
go unpunished.

How dare you have such contempt for society - a contempt at least as
great as those who commit such acts. The potential outcome is no
different to planting bombs amongst innocent civilians by the IRA.

There is no one potential outcome - it depends on circumstances.
Tell me, are you a headline writer for a tabloid? You seem to see things
in a black and white way.

You also should consider the difference between setting out to kill
someone and the possible result of a simple theft. But it's probably too
hard for you.

That of course depends on whether you judge things according to motive
and responsibility, or results....

"A rattlesnake ain't reponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah puts mah
heel on em jess the same if I catches un around ma chillun"

Faced with a definitely deprived individual waving a loaded gun, are you
going to have a social philosophical discussion, or just fire first...

On 24/01/2012 15:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article94ydnZob3fBUX4PSnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:
Your attitude seems to be: "F*ck the thousands of innocent people who
potentially suffer because of attacks of wanton vandalism and theft such
as these, it is far better that they do so than the guilty be punished
in any way - even if it be by their own stupidity".

You seem to love making things up as I've never even implied that thieves
go unpunished.


Nor have you suggested that they should be.

How dare you have such contempt for society - a contempt at least as
great as those who commit such acts. The potential outcome is no
different to planting bombs amongst innocent civilians by the IRA.

There is no one potential outcome - it depends on circumstances.

And those circumstances could well result in damage to innocent parties.

Tell me, are you a headline writer for a tabloid? You seem to see things
in a black and white way.


No, but that's probably a cleaner and more honest approach than, say,
the Guardian's.

You also should consider the difference between setting out to kill
someone and the possible result of a simple theft. But it's probably too
hard for you.


Not at all. But, if that "simple theft" does result in the death of an
innocent party, are you suggesting that we just accept it because that
wasn't the original intention? I would rather see you suggest that
criminals, major or minor, accept the consequences of their own actions,
especially if they impinge upon the lives of innocent people.

If, however, they manage to kill themselves in the course of their
illegal act it may serve as a warning to others.

Please remember that they have total freedom of choice in these matters
- their victims do not.

--
Moving things in still pictures

On Jan 24, 1:32*pm, John Williamson
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
* *®i©ardo wrote:
Of course not. Didn't think you were human.

Well, given your twisted outlook on life that's hardly surprising. Let
us praise and nurture the wrong-doers, because it would be unjust to to
do otherwise, even if everyone else suffers as a result of their actions.

If it's a twisted outlook on life hoping a petty thief doesn't get killed
for whatever reason I'm happy to be 'twisted'.

I've been staying out of this until now, but I agree with that.

The penalty suffered here (As in the original pictures of cooked people)
wasn't for the attempted theft, it was for ignoring, whether knowingly
or not, the dangers involved in tampering with the laws of nature.
Unfortunately for some, the laws of nature show no mercy, and are not
subject to appeal. I can't check in this case now, as the pictures have
been "moved or deleted", but all the access points to high voltage
installations I've seen have warnings on them stating something like
"High voltage electricity kills".

it's a pity they don;t have such pictures along side the words like
they do on ciggerette packets.
i.e keep breaking in or go past this and this is could be your future.

Here, at least, there are also fences
to keep out those who can't read, but not those who can't take a hint.
Even the razor wire mentioned elsewhere won't keep a determined
wrong-doer safe.

If they'd had the sense to try it with a wire that wasn't lethally live,
or taken the right precautions, they'd be alive today, and possibly, if
they'd been caught, paying whatever penalty the system deemed
appropriate. Like the many people stealing phone wiring in this country.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:40:20 +0000, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=AEi=A9ardo?=
wrote:

Your attitude seems to be: "F*ck the thousands of innocent people who
potentially suffer because of attacks of wanton vandalism and theft such
as these, it is far better that they do so than the guilty be punished
in any way - even if it be by their own stupidity".

Considering that the police investigation that is the result of the
deaths will delay the repair compared with the situation if the
thieves had got away, ISTM that it is *you* who doesn't care about the
increase to the disruption so long as the thieves suffer bad
consequences.

--
Cynic

On Jan 24, 3:01*pm, (Cynic) wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:06:23 +0000, Frank Erskine

wrote:
Power cuts can and do happen without cables being nicked. If that power is
essential, backup should be provided.

Hospitals always (?) have standby alternators, but what about, for
example, renal dialysis machines used in private homes? Or all these
type of things battery powered nowadays? Indeed, are such things used
at all now? :-)

Do you seriously believe that any sensible person would arrange things
so that their very life depended on the mains power not failing over a
protracted time? *If so, perhaps they are more eligible for the
"Darwin award" than the people in question.

Most don;t have that option.
I would hope few people are in this position.


All electrically operated life-support machines invariably have an
alternate power source that will switch in automatically in the event
of a mains failure.

Few trains have this and what if teh doctor or suregeon should be
stuck on one of these trains.
People have been stuck on trains for hours.


*Perhaps it will be a battery that will only last
an hour or so - in which case there ought to be a small generator or
some other contingency plan available for use in the event that the
mains is not restored in time. *Quite a number of non-deliberate
events can cause power failures that last for several days - or in
extreme cases several weeks.

yes and there's usually little backup.


--
Cynic

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:43:51 +0000, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=AEi=A9ardo?=
wrote:

Not at all. But, if that "simple theft" does result in the death of an
innocent party, are you suggesting that we just accept it because that
wasn't the original intention? I would rather see you suggest that
criminals, major or minor, accept the consequences of their own actions,
especially if they impinge upon the lives of innocent people.

If, however, they manage to kill themselves in the course of their
illegal act it may serve as a warning to others.

Please remember that they have total freedom of choice in these matters
- their victims do not.

Do you feel the same way about a criminal who drives his car at 45 MPH
in a 40 MPH limit? It could result in death. Even parking in a
no-parking area could result in death. Do you therefore similarly
wish death on drivers who break the speed limit, and people with
parking infringements?

--
Cynic

whisky-dave wrote:
On Jan 24, 1:32 pm, John Williamson
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
®i©ardo wrote:
Of course not. Didn't think you were human.
Well, given your twisted outlook on life that's hardly surprising. Let
us praise and nurture the wrong-doers, because it would be unjust to to
do otherwise, even if everyone else suffers as a result of their actions.
If it's a twisted outlook on life hoping a petty thief doesn't get killed
for whatever reason I'm happy to be 'twisted'.
I've been staying out of this until now, but I agree with that.

The penalty suffered here (As in the original pictures of cooked people)
wasn't for the attempted theft, it was for ignoring, whether knowingly
or not, the dangers involved in tampering with the laws of nature.
Unfortunately for some, the laws of nature show no mercy, and are not
subject to appeal. I can't check in this case now, as the pictures have
been "moved or deleted", but all the access points to high voltage
installations I've seen have warnings on them stating something like
"High voltage electricity kills".

it's a pity they don;t have such pictures along side the words like
they do on ciggerette packets.
i.e keep breaking in or go past this and this is could be your future.

Or maybe a yellow triangular sign with a picture of a dead person under
a lightning bolt? Like the ones I see all over Europe?

The pictures shown here would frighten people who aren't planning on
doing any wrong, and the general feeling among those who are planning to
do wrong is "It won't happen to me, because it didn't happen to my mate
when he did it.".

My point is mainly that no matter what you do to protect people,
evolution still happens.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 24/01/2012 14:40, ®i©ardo wrote:
On 24/01/2012 12:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article366dnc6WufS2CIPSnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:
Of course not. Didn't think you were human.


Well, given your twisted outlook on life that's hardly surprising. Let
us praise and nurture the wrong-doers, because it would be unjust to to
do otherwise, even if everyone else suffers as a result of their
actions.

If it's a twisted outlook on life hoping a petty thief doesn't get killed
for whatever reason I'm happy to be 'twisted'.

Those who want the ultimate penalty for such things rarely stop there,
given the chance. But then you're obviously too thick to work this out.


Your attitude seems to be: "F*ck the thousands of innocent people who
potentially suffer because of attacks of wanton vandalism and theft such
as these, it is far better that they do so than the guilty be punished
in any way - even if it be by their own stupidity".

Don't talk shite. Nobody is saying that there should be no punishment,
only that the death penalty is inappropriate.

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 23:25:14 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Steve O wrote:
No power, no phone service, no signalling on roads and railways, no
train services (etc). No, I simply can't see how the disruption of any
of these services could possible put lives at risk.

You forgot about hospital equipment, ventilators in the home, etc.
The OP obviously doesn't realize that power cuts can kill people.

Power cuts can and do happen without cables being nicked. If that power is
essential, backup should be provided.

Hospitals always (?) have standby alternators, but what about, for
example, renal dialysis machines used in private homes?

For programmed shut-downs, mobile generators are usually provided . Kidney
machines are highlighted on operational control diagrams.

Bill
--
Frank Erskine

"Cynic" wrote in message
news:4f1ec554.867732609@localhost...
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:06:23 +0000, Frank Erskine
wrote:

Power cuts can and do happen without cables being nicked. If that power
is
essential, backup should be provided.

Hospitals always (?) have standby alternators, but what about, for
example, renal dialysis machines used in private homes? Or all these
type of things battery powered nowadays? Indeed, are such things used
at all now? :-)

Do you seriously believe that any sensible person would arrange things
so that their very life depended on the mains power not failing over a
protracted time? If so, perhaps they are more eligible for the
"Darwin award" than the people in question.

All electrically operated life-support machines invariably have an
alternate power source that will switch in automatically in the event
of a mains failure.

Dream on!

Bill
--
Cynic

On 24/01/2012 16:15, Cynic wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:43:51 +0000, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=AEi=A9ardo?=
wrote:

Not at all. But, if that "simple theft" does result in the death of an
innocent party, are you suggesting that we just accept it because that
wasn't the original intention? I would rather see you suggest that
criminals, major or minor, accept the consequences of their own actions,
especially if they impinge upon the lives of innocent people.

If, however, they manage to kill themselves in the course of their
illegal act it may serve as a warning to others.

Please remember that they have total freedom of choice in these matters
- their victims do not.

Do you feel the same way about a criminal who drives his car at 45 MPH
in a 40 MPH limit? It could result in death. Even parking in a
no-parking area could result in death.

Please cite a few examples.

Do you therefore similarly
wish death on drivers who break the speed limit, and people with
parking infringements?


I've not "wished death" on anyone, although some might have wished it
upon themselves.

As you may be aware, there are penalties available for exceeding the
speed limit, as there are for illegal parking regardless or whether an
accident ensues, such penalties being more severe when an accident
occurs for the reason stated. Never having received such a penalty in
nearly fifty years of driving, however, I'll be guided by those who
obviously have fallen foul of the law.

You may think it a good idea to kill speeding drivers, but I'll keep an
open mind on it.

--
Moving things in still pictures

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:52:38 +0000, Ian wrote:

"®i©ardo" wrote in message
...
On 23/01/2012 20:48, hugh wrote:
In message , 'Mike'
writes


"David in Normandy" wrote in message
r...
On 20/01/2012 23:04, Nigel Oldfield wrote:
On 20/01/2012 18:51, harry wrote:
Not for the faint hearted this one!
http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=8130.0

Gotta sting.



Bet it came as a shock.

-- David in Normandy. To e-mail you must
include the password FROG on the subject line, or it will be
automatically deleted by a filter and not reach my inbox.


An electrifying experience?

Mike


Enough to make your hair stand on end :-(

Re-VOLT-ing!

I bet his brain hertz........

Ohm I God.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

"Bill Grey" wrote in message
...

"Cynic" wrote in message
news:4f1ec554.867732609@localhost...
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:06:23 +0000, Frank Erskine
wrote:

Power cuts can and do happen without cables being nicked. If that power
is
essential, backup should be provided.

Hospitals always (?) have standby alternators, but what about, for
example, renal dialysis machines used in private homes? Or all these
type of things battery powered nowadays? Indeed, are such things used
at all now? :-)

Do you seriously believe that any sensible person would arrange things
so that their very life depended on the mains power not failing over a
protracted time? If so, perhaps they are more eligible for the
"Darwin award" than the people in question.

All electrically operated life-support machines invariably have an
alternate power source that will switch in automatically in the event
of a mains failure.

Dream on!

Bill
--
Cynic


Bill the emphasis is on "electrically operated life-support machines". Maybe
not in your home but in hospitals, .. yes. At Sea as well. I have been very
heavily involved in the Marine Electrical Design business and I know that
the "Back up"" power supply is paramount. Not talking of the fun yachts
swanking around the Med chasing the sun and flashing boobs here and there,
but real maritime stuff.

Ask me

Mike

....................................

I'm an Angel, honest ! The horns are there just to keep the halo straight.

....................................