Is the fox a pest ?

The fox has a reputation, handed down from generation to generation
through fables and country tales, of being a cunning and ruthless
thief which lives off lambs, poultry and pet cats. The fox has
suffered much from this image - eagerly exploited by those who kill
foxes either for sport or financial gain. However, over the past two
decades there has been considerable scientific interest in fox
biology. Studies have been undertaken by the Institute of Terrestrial
Ecology, the Universities of Oxford, Bristol and Aberdeen as well as
the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries & Food (MAFF) (now DEFRA, the
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) and the Department
of Agriculture & Fisheries for Scotland (DAFS). This research has
shown the fox in an entirely different light and unanimously confirms
that man's efforts at 'controlling' the fox population are largely
ineffective and that the damage caused by foxes is insignificant.



For example, a five year study undertaken for DAFS revealed that
whilst up to 24% of lambs in the Highlands of Scotland may be lost
through still-births, malnutrition and hypothermia, only around 1% are
lost to foxes. (Ref: "Scavenging and predation upon sheep and lambs in
West Scotland" by R Hewson and A F Leitch, Journal of Applied Ecology
(1984) 21, 843-868). Perhaps more importantly, a three year study of
fox predation on lambs in Scotland found that leaving foxes in peace
did not result in an increase in fox numbers or an increase in the
already small number of lambs taken. (Ref: Predation upon lambs by
foxes in the absence of control, by R Hewson M.Sc., Ph.D.,
M.I.Biol.,Department of Zoology, University of Aberdeen 1990).

It has already been firmly established that the vast majority of the
lambs taken by foxes are either already dead, or weak and unlikely to
survive. Nevertheless, farmers have constantly argued that although
lamb losses are small, they would be much larger if foxes were not
ruthlessly controlled. The Aberdeen University study challenges the
necessity of this high level of persecution - much of which is paid
for by the tax-payer and farmer. Similar surveys by MAFF have led it
to the conclusion that fox predation on lambs is "insignificant". A
recent study by Dr Piran White of York University showed that an
average of only 0.4% of lambs are killed by foxes, making it
uneconomical for most farmers to undertake fox control measures.
Keeping new-born lambs indoors for the first few hours of their lives
is the best way of preventing fox predation, the report found. In
addition to this, a survey by the Mammal Society during the period of
foot-and-mouth disease in 2002 when hunting was banned demonstrated
that fox numbers did not rise, indicating that hunting has no effect
on the fox population.

Regrettably, the vast majority of poultry these days are kept in
battery cages or broiler sheds and are therefore not at risk from fox
attacks. Free-range poultry are rarely taken by foxes in daylight and
therefore losses will be small, provided that the birds are securely
housed at dusk. In most cases where foxes kill a large number of
birds, it is because the farmer has failed to shut the hen house door
or the housing is inadequate - in other words poor husbandry. Foxes
are accused of 'killing for fun' because they may flee leaving many
dead birds behind. This is known to biologists as 'surplus killing'.
In the unnatural surroundings of a chicken-run the fox's natural
killing instinct is continually triggered by prey which are prevented
from scattering as they would in the wild. In fact, it has been shown
that when a fox gets into a chicken coop the commotion arouses the
farmer and his dogs, lights go on, doors open and the fox flees.


However it is known that in an undisturbed situation, the fox will
make many trips to carry off the dead birds, and bury them for future
use when food may be scarce. Such caching of food is instinctive for
foxes and has even been observed in young orphaned cubs. Foxes have
also been falsely accused of killing cats, but studies by Oxford and
Bristol Universities have shown that foxes have a healthy respect for
the formidable armoury of an adult cat and will generally avoid
confrontation. The remains of cats have been found at fox earths and
there have been claims of sightings of foxes carrying dead cats.
However, such cats are likely to have been road accident victims - the
fox merely doing what it does best - scavenging.




**********************************************




'You can't win 'em all.'
Lord Haw Haw.

Since I stopped donating money to CONservation hooligan charities
Like the RSPB, Woodland Trust and all the other fat cat charities
I am in the top 0.801% richest people in the world.
There are 5,951,930,035 people poorer than me

If you're really interested I am the 48,069,965
richest person in the world.

And I'm keeping the bloody lot.

So sue me.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Newsgroup ettiquette

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will have a penis the girls can see.

---------------------------------------

"If you would'nt talk to them in a bar, don't *uckin' vote for them"

"Australia was not *discovered* it was invaded"
The Big Yin.

Yes. It carries mange.

Quote:

The fox has a reputation, handed down from generation to generation through fables and country tales, of being a cunning and ruthless thief which lives off lambs, poultry and pet cats.

Maybe in your world it does, but those of us who know what we are talking about understand foxes don't live on lamb and cat! Chicken if he can't find anything safer to eat, but mainly mice and small prey.

Quote:

The Aberdeen University study challenges the necessity of this high level of persecution - much of which is paid for by the tax-payer and farmer.

When have tax payers covered the cost of fox culling?

Quote:

.... a survey by the Mammal Society during the period of foot-and-mouth disease in 2002 when hunting was banned demonstrated that fox numbers did not rise, indicating that hunting has no effect on the fox population.

Or that they were being shot - DOH!

Quote:

Free-range poultry are rarely taken by foxes in daylight and therefore losses will be small, provided that the birds are securely housed at dusk. In most cases where foxes kill a large number of birds, it is because the farmer has failed to shut the hen house door or the housing is inadequate - in other words poor husbandry.

Just how much did this highly obvious bit of scientific study cost the tax payer? It always makes me smile when there are rows about this sort of thing and the tax situation is addresses. The study costs far more than the information warrants!

Does anyone actually read all this stuff you put on here, anyway?

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:02:14 +0000, LordSnooty
wrote:

Is the fox a pest ?

No. Foxes are cool. They eat tons of rodents, and keeps the
bird-feeder-squating cats waching their six I wish I had some
more.

Dan

Foxy some years ago cleared a 15 litter of piglets from my old sow in about
twenty minutes. She chased one fox and another ran in and stole a piglet. In
fact they totaly ignored me and cleared the lot.

.......................Leslie

"dstvns" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:02:14 +0000, LordSnooty
wrote:

Is the fox a pest ?

No. Foxes are cool. They eat tons of rodents, and keeps the
bird-feeder-squating cats waching their six I wish I had some
more.

Dan

"Therefore" wrote in message
. ..
Foxy some years ago cleared a 15 litter of piglets from my old sow in
about
twenty minutes. She chased one fox and another ran in and stole a piglet.
In
fact they totaly ignored me and cleared the lot.

.......................Leslie

But you must admit banning all farming, hunting, quarying, etc. and
replacing the entire countryside with one ****ing enormous lawn with a
bloody great birdtable in the middle would be "well cool", as the younger
and thicker members of our rapidly declining society might say.

Michael Saunby


"dstvns" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:02:14 +0000, LordSnooty
wrote:

Is the fox a pest ?

No. Foxes are cool. They eat tons of rodents, and keeps the
bird-feeder-squating cats waching their six I wish I had some
more.

Dan

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 19:51:40 -0000, "Michael Saunby"
wrote:


"Therefore" wrote in message
...
Foxy some years ago cleared a 15 litter of piglets from my old sow in
about
twenty minutes. She chased one fox and another ran in and stole a piglet.
In
fact they totaly ignored me and cleared the lot.

.......................Leslie

But you must admit banning all farming, hunting, quarying, etc. and
replacing the entire countryside with one ****ing enormous lawn with a
bloody great birdtable in the middle would be "well cool", as the younger
and thicker members of our rapidly declining society might say.

Society looks very good from where I'm standing. lol

Are there any thicker than pro hunt?


"dstvns" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:02:14 +0000, LordSnooty
wrote:

Is the fox a pest ?

No. Foxes are cool. They eat tons of rodents, and keeps the
bird-feeder-squating cats waching their six I wish I had some
more.

Dan








**********************************************




'You can't win 'em all.'
Lord Haw Haw.

Since I stopped donating money to CONservation hooligan charities
Like the RSPB, Woodland Trust and all the other fat cat charities
I am in the top 0.801% richest people in the world.
There are 5,951,930,035 people poorer than me

If you're really interested I am the 48,069,965
richest person in the world.

And I'm keeping the bloody lot.

So sue me.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Newsgroup ettiquette

1) Tell everyone the Trolls don't bother you.
2) Say you've killfiled them, yet continue to respond.
3) Tell other people off who repsond despite doing so yourself.
4) Continually talk about Trolls while maintaining
they're having no effect.
5) Publicly post killfile rules so the Trolls know
how to avoid them.
6) Make lame legal threats and other barrel scraping
manoeuvres when your abuse reports are ignored.
7) Eat vast quantities of pies.
8) Forget to brush your teeth for several decades.
9) Help a demon.local poster with their email while
secretly reading it.
10) Pretend you're a hard ******* when in fact you're
as bent as a roundabout.
11) Become the laughing stock of Usenet like Mabbet
12) Die of old age
13) Keep paying Dr Chartham his fees and hope one day you
will have a penis the girls can see.

---------------------------------------

"If you would'nt talk to them in a bar, don't *uckin' vote for them"

"Australia was not *discovered* it was invaded"
The Big Yin.

"Therefore" wrote in message
. ..
Foxy some years ago cleared a 15 litter of piglets from my old sow in
about
twenty minutes. She chased one fox and another ran in and stole a piglet.
In
fact they totaly ignored me and cleared the lot.

.......................Leslie

But you must admit banning all farming, hunting, quarying, etc. and
replacing the entire countryside with one ****ing enormous lawn with a
bloody great birdtable in the middle would be "well cool", as the younger
and thicker members of our rapidly declining society might say.

Michael Saunby


"dstvns" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:02:14 +0000, LordSnooty
wrote:

Is the fox a pest ?

No. Foxes are cool. They eat tons of rodents, and keeps the
bird-feeder-squating cats waching their six I wish I had some
more.

Dan

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 19:51:40 -0000, "Michael Saunby"
wrote:


"Therefore" wrote in message
...
Foxy some years ago cleared a 15 litter of piglets from my old sow in
about
twenty minutes. She chased one fox and another ran in and stole a piglet.
In
fact they totaly ignored me and cleared the lot.

.......................Leslie

But you must admit banning all farming, hunting, quarying, etc. and
replacing the entire countryside with one ****ing enormous lawn with a
bloody great birdtable in the middle would be "well cool", as the younger
and thicker members of our rapidly declining society might say.

Society looks very good from where I'm standing. lol

Are there any thicker than pro hunt?


"dstvns" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:02:14 +0000, LordSnooty
wrote:

Is the fox a pest ?

No. Foxes are cool. They eat tons of rodents, and keeps the
bird-feeder-squating cats waching their six I wish I had some
more.

Dan








**********************************************




'You can't win 'em all.'
Lord Haw Haw.

Since I stopped donating money to CONservation hooligan charities
Like the RSPB, Woodland Trust and all the other fat cat charities
I am in the top 0.801% richest people in the world.
There are 5,951,930,035 people poorer than me

If you're really interested I am the 48,069,965
richest person in the world.

And I'm keeping the bloody lot.

So sue me.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Newsgroup ettiquette

1) Tell everyone the Trolls don't bother you.
2) Say you've killfiled them, yet continue to respond.
3) Tell other people off who repsond despite doing so yourself.
4) Continually talk about Trolls while maintaining
they're having no effect.
5) Publicly post killfile rules so the Trolls know
how to avoid them.
6) Make lame legal threats and other barrel scraping
manoeuvres when your abuse reports are ignored.
7) Eat vast quantities of pies.
8) Forget to brush your teeth for several decades.
9) Help a demon.local poster with their email while
secretly reading it.
10) Pretend you're a hard ******* when in fact you're
as bent as a roundabout.
11) Become the laughing stock of Usenet like Mabbet
12) Die of old age
13) Keep paying Dr Chartham his fees and hope one day you
will have a penis the girls can see.

---------------------------------------

"If you would'nt talk to them in a bar, don't *uckin' vote for them"

"Australia was not *discovered* it was invaded"
The Big Yin.

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 19:51:40 -0000, "Michael Saunby"
wrote:


"Therefore" wrote in message
...
Foxy some years ago cleared a 15 litter of piglets from my old sow in
about
twenty minutes. She chased one fox and another ran in and stole a piglet.
In
fact they totaly ignored me and cleared the lot.

.......................Leslie

But you must admit banning all farming, hunting, quarying, etc. and
replacing the entire countryside with one ****ing enormous lawn with a
bloody great birdtable in the middle would be "well cool", as the younger
and thicker members of our rapidly declining society might say.

The great croquet lawn in the sky?
--
Martin

"dstvns" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:02:14 +0000, LordSnooty
wrote:

Is the fox a pest ?

No. Foxes are cool. They eat tons of rodents, and keeps the
bird-feeder-squating cats waching their six I wish I had some
more.

Dan


Foxy some years ago cleared a 15 litter of piglets from my old sow in about
twenty minutes. She chased one fox and another ran in and stole a piglet. In
fact they totaly ignored me and cleared the lot.

.......................Leslie

That's what foxes do. Kill your stock and that's why they need to be
controlled in some way. The only fox control for the moment is hunting. If
I could ring up the local council and say, look, get this fox that is
killing my stock and they would do something about it, which they won't, I
would be quite in favour of that, as an alternative.

Michael Saunby wrote in message
...

"Therefore" wrote in message
. ..
Foxy some years ago cleared a 15 litter of piglets from my old sow in
about
twenty minutes. She chased one fox and another ran in and stole a
piglet.
In
fact they totaly ignored me and cleared the lot.

.......................Leslie

But you must admit banning all farming, hunting, quarying, etc. and
replacing the entire countryside with one ****ing enormous lawn with a
bloody great birdtable in the middle would be "well cool", as the younger
and thicker members of our rapidly declining society might say.

Michael Saunby




Oh, yes, well cool, if not "wicked." I'm with you on that. We agree on
many things.

Tina

"Christina wrote in message
That's what foxes do. Kill your stock and that's why they need to be
controlled in some way. The only fox control for the moment is hunting.
If
I could ring up the local council and say, look, get this fox that is
killing my stock and they would do something about it, which they won't, I
would be quite in favour of that, as an alternative.


Ah! But if they did react what method would they then use to kill said
fox/foxes and would it be guaranteed to be always more humane than hunting
with dogs?

--
Regards
Bob

Use a useful Screen Saver...
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
and find intelligent life amongst the stars
343 data units completed.

".........Foxy some years ago cleared a 15 litter of piglets from my old sow
in about twenty minutes. She chased one fox and another ran in and stole a
piglet. In fact they totally ignored me and cleared the lot.............."

Ah........but think of the damage 16 pigs loose in the garden could have
done.


--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk
***2004 catalogue now available***

"Christina Websell" christina.websell@zoomdotcodotuk wrote in message
news:3fd0f442$0$13872$afc38c87@vipnews...


That's what foxes do. Kill your stock and that's why they need to be
controlled in some way. The only fox control for the moment is hunting.


If you have a fox at your livestock you sit up all night and shoot it.
My neighbour did just this and shot 3 in a week, all the hunt does is
distribute the foxes round the countryside.
If you don't want to do this yourself there are plenty of sports hunters out
there who will do it for you for nothing.
Just enter "vermin" and "pest control" into a search engine.
Tom

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 22:46:58 -0000, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:


"Christina wrote in message
That's what foxes do. Kill your stock and that's why they need to be
controlled in some way. The only fox control for the moment is hunting.
If
I could ring up the local council and say, look, get this fox that is
killing my stock and they would do something about it, which they won't, I
would be quite in favour of that, as an alternative.


Ah! But if they did react what method would they then use to kill said
fox/foxes and would it be guaranteed to be always more humane than hunting
with dogs?

What's humane about hunting with dogs, who but a village idiot ever
claimed it was humane?





**********************************************




'You can't win 'em all.'
Lord Haw Haw.

Since I stopped donating money to CONservation hooligan charities
Like the RSPB, Woodland Trust and all the other fat cat charities
I am in the top 0.801% richest people in the world.
There are 5,951,930,035 people poorer than me

If you're really interested I am the 48,069,965
richest person in the world.

And I'm keeping the bloody lot.

So sue me.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Newsgroup ettiquette

1) Tell everyone the Trolls don't bother you.
2) Say you've killfiled them, yet continue to respond.
3) Tell other people off who repsond despite doing so yourself.
4) Continually talk about Trolls while maintaining
they're having no effect.
5) Publicly post killfile rules so the Trolls know
how to avoid them.
6) Make lame legal threats and other barrel scraping
manoeuvres when your abuse reports are ignored.
7) Eat vast quantities of pies.
8) Forget to brush your teeth for several decades.
9) Help a demon.local poster with their email while
secretly reading it.
10) Pretend you're a hard ******* when in fact you're
as bent as a roundabout.
11) Become the laughing stock of Usenet like Mabbet
12) Die of old age
13) Keep paying Dr Chartham his fees and hope one day you
will have a penis the girls can see.

---------------------------------------

"If you would'nt talk to them in a bar, don't *uckin' vote for them"

"Australia was not *discovered* it was invaded"
The Big Yin.