On 28/10/04 21:03, in article , "ned"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
k...

snip
Two nests, eh? Amazing. In 60
feet. Wow.

:-)
It is a dense hedge. And when I trim, I trim. Just the outside bits.
You don't think I would spoil Natures artistry by rummaging about
inside, do you?
Just to do an audit against the off chance that Sacha might want to
know.
:-)
I know your sort. You're just trying to egg me on so that I take the
whole thing to bits just to up the nest count.

Can't fool you, huh?
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In article , Sacha
writes
On 28/10/04 20:10, in article , "Kay"
wrote:


Kay, I'm not sure why but you seem to be stretching this to some rather
obscure limits. You were at my house for about 24 hours but seem to feel
able to make a judgment about the area and conditions.

Well, even in 24 hours I was able to judge that a) the ex-hedge was
along the front of the garden - not a hard judgement - you told me! ;-)
b) that the lane was considerably quieter than suburban Leeds. c) there
was an awful lot of countryside around

Or did I get that wrong? ;-)

You're thinking
'people'? 'People' what? Are you now saying that people walking past,
people on horseback, people walking dogs are going to frighten the local
bird population out of the trees? I repeat that birds were to be found in
neighbours' trees and in my other trees but not in the leylandii hedge. It
was something I particularly remarked because it puzzled me.

Precisely - it puzzled me too. And I'm trying to explore why. You, I
think, put it down to the lack of utility of leylandii to wildlife, but
that is in contrast to my experience, which is that it's not brilliant,
but neither is it barren. So why do I get birds in leylandii when you
don't? My first thought is 'your hedge borders a road' ..... but it's an
incredibly quiet road - do you get many people walking past? (birds
don't worry much about cars) .... but again, maybe even a *quiet* road
is to be avoided in a rural area where there's lots of choice, whereas
my poor suburban birds have to take what they can get.

Sorry if I didn't fill in all the links in my thinking - I thought you'd
follow where I was coming from.


The point is that I saw NO birds nesting or even perching for long, in the
thick leylandii hedge that I had in that particular house - a hedge you
never saw, BTW - nor in the smaller hedge I had in a previous house.

I know. And that's puzzling, because I do get birds. And although it's
not a favourite tree, it is a favourite, in our garden, of the goldcrest
which isn't well catered for elsewhere in the garden.


Well, we have ivy and euphorbia and lots of wrens, so I'll keep my eyes
open. We have more than a few conifers in this area but I haven't seen these
little birds.

Do you get flocks of long tailed tits coming through? They like conifers
too, and also seem to like birch trees. I think they're my favourite
birds. You don't always see them immediately, but you hear them, and
that moment when you realise they're all around you is magical.

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

In article ,
Kay writes:
|
| Precisely - it puzzled me too. And I'm trying to explore why. You, I
| think, put it down to the lack of utility of leylandii to wildlife, but
| that is in contrast to my experience, which is that it's not brilliant,
| but neither is it barren. So why do I get birds in leylandii when you
| don't? ...

Because you have the relevant birds looking for a nesting site,
and possibly few other suitable ones. Leylandii is of use to
most birds SOLELY as a nesting site - and then only to some birds.
If they don't have sources of food elsewhere, it will be barren,
because the birds won't be there. Similarly, if there are enough
preferable nesting plants, it will not be used.

It isn't a lot different from most hedges in this respect, though
is a little more extreme, in that it doesn't host a lot of insects
and other food either on its leaves or in its litter.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 29/10/04 12:04, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes
On 28/10/04 20:10, in article , "Kay"
wrote:


Kay, I'm not sure why but you seem to be stretching this to some rather
obscure limits. You were at my house for about 24 hours but seem to feel
able to make a judgment about the area and conditions.

Well, even in 24 hours I was able to judge that a) the ex-hedge was
along the front of the garden - not a hard judgement - you told me! ;-)
b) that the lane was considerably quieter than suburban Leeds. c) there
was an awful lot of countryside around

Or did I get that wrong? ;-)

No but you seem to be suggesting that passing traffic - pedestrain, if I
understand you correctly - would have frightened the birds out of what was a
very dense hedge (these had been allowed to spread outwards a lot as well as
upwards)

You're thinking
'people'? 'People' what? Are you now saying that people walking past,
people on horseback, people walking dogs are going to frighten the local
bird population out of the trees? I repeat that birds were to be found in
neighbours' trees and in my other trees but not in the leylandii hedge. It
was something I particularly remarked because it puzzled me.

Precisely - it puzzled me too. And I'm trying to explore why. You, I
think, put it down to the lack of utility of leylandii to wildlife, but
that is in contrast to my experience, which is that it's not brilliant,
but neither is it barren.

To be honest, I don't put it down to anything because I can't really
understand it. Here was a very dense, high hedge which one would think was
the *perfect* cover but it really did lack all signs of nesting or even much
perching. In fact, when it was felled, to be on the safe side, I asked the
man doing it to choose a time out of the nesting season - obviously - and
even asked him if he found any nests. Not one, was the answer. But in the
house next door which had a big walnut tree on the same lane and another
just behind the first, there were lots of birds perching and nesting.


So why do I get birds in leylandii when you
don't? My first thought is 'your hedge borders a road' ..... but it's an
incredibly quiet road - do you get many people walking past? (birds
don't worry much about cars) .... but again, maybe even a *quiet* road
is to be avoided in a rural area where there's lots of choice, whereas
my poor suburban birds have to take what they can get.

Sorry if I didn't fill in all the links in my thinking - I thought you'd
follow where I was coming from.

Not really because my experience with birds here at Hill House is so
different and my experience of 'birding' in England is very limited. As I
say, the hedge by the tearoom which isn't as high or as dense a the old
leylandii hedge I had, is a haven for sparrows but has people walking up and
down that path umpteen times a day. The birds that zoom in and out of the
green houses don't seem to care a damn for people or dogs. The only thing
that has made them disappear lately is a sparrowhawk which tried and failed
to catch one eating crumbs just outside the greenhouse door and then had the
brass nerve to 'hide' among some large pots to try to have another go.


The point is that I saw NO birds nesting or even perching for long, in the
thick leylandii hedge that I had in that particular house - a hedge you
never saw, BTW - nor in the smaller hedge I had in a previous house.

I know. And that's puzzling, because I do get birds. And although it's
not a favourite tree, it is a favourite, in our garden, of the goldcrest
which isn't well catered for elsewhere in the garden.


Well, we have ivy and euphorbia and lots of wrens, so I'll keep my eyes
open. We have more than a few conifers in this area but I haven't seen these
little birds.

Do you get flocks of long tailed tits coming through? They like conifers
too, and also seem to like birch trees. I think they're my favourite
birds. You don't always see them immediately, but you hear them, and
that moment when you realise they're all around you is magical.

Hmmm, again, not that I know of. We have lots of sparrows, blue tits,
wrens, tree creepers, great tits, the odd bullfinch, collared doves, wood
pigeons, thrushes, masses of blackbirds, some greenfinches, a lesser spotted
woodpecker, sparrowhawks, blast 'em, rooks, chaffinches, Little owls, robins
and jackdaws. What I have noticed in the 5 years I've known this place, is
a considerable decline in bird numbers but we have no idea why.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

"mcloone" wrote in message
om...
Ok,
the gardener seemed helpful at the start, but the owner of the hedge
expressed similar concerns that the hedge was now thin. The said
gardener charged 150 quid to spray cut branches with "fungicide". He
said this would ensure it turns green again. I now think the
gardener
was just trying to make a fast buck.

That is as clear as a bell, from that last sentence.

I have since discussed the hedge with a garden centre owner. She
doubts that there will be regrowth and also said that because the
tree
root system will have extended into my garden i will not be able to
grow anything underneath them. I've noticed that our grass did not
take well underneath either. The leylandii suck all the goodness
from
the soil apparently.

That is much too pessimistic an attitude. It is possible to load your
soil with "goodness" faster than the Leylandii will abstract it. Feed
the soil regularly with Growmore and mulch it thickly with spent
mushroom compost or Council compost or your own compost.

One thing suggested was a "Montana Clematis"
which is quite prolific and may compete with the trees.
I understand I can cut the roots on my side of the fence. If I cut
the
roots and place some kind of barrier to prevent the roots crossing
over again and fertilize the soil on my side, should I be able to
grow
what I want? What might an effective root barrier be?

Don't bother playing with the roots other than cutting the ones which
interfere with your planting plans. Just be a little more generous
with fertiliser and compost than you would otherwise have been and all
will be well.

[snip]

Franz

In article , Sacha
writes

Hmmm, again, not that I know of. We have lots of sparrows, blue tits,
wrens, tree creepers, great tits, the odd bullfinch, collared doves, wood
pigeons, thrushes, masses of blackbirds, some greenfinches, a lesser spotted
woodpecker, sparrowhawks, blast 'em, rooks, chaffinches, Little owls, robins
and jackdaws. What I have noticed in the 5 years I've known this place, is
a considerable decline in bird numbers but we have no idea why.

Whereas we've had a steady increase, both in numbers and species.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

On 29/10/04 20:19, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes

Hmmm, again, not that I know of. We have lots of sparrows, blue tits,
wrens, tree creepers, great tits, the odd bullfinch, collared doves, wood
pigeons, thrushes, masses of blackbirds, some greenfinches, a lesser spotted
woodpecker, sparrowhawks, blast 'em, rooks, chaffinches, Little owls, robins
and jackdaws. What I have noticed in the 5 years I've known this place, is
a considerable decline in bird numbers but we have no idea why.

Whereas we've had a steady increase, both in numbers and species.

It's very strange - not your increase but the decline here. As far as we
know, nothing has changed in terms of habitat or feeding or predators. The
only thing is the sparrowhawks but I really don't think they can account for
this drop in numbers.
Blackbirds are the most numerous and thrush the least. I don't count the
rooks because the rookery is in the garden and we can hardly fail to notice
those!
But we used to see dozens of bluetits and chaffinches. The latter are still
fairly well seen but the former have definitely dropped off in numbers.
There are a lot of buzzards around, too but very rarely in the garden
itself, almost always in the fields behind us. The only time we've seen
them in the garden was last year during the drought period at the end of the
summer.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In article , Sacha
writes

It's very strange - not your increase but the decline here. As far as we
know, nothing has changed in terms of habitat or feeding or predators. The
only thing is the sparrowhawks but I really don't think they can account for
this drop in numbers.
Blackbirds are the most numerous and thrush the least.

Song thrushes have been declining over the years. We get mistle
thrushes, especially in the winter when they come for the holly berries
in the front garden, but it's rare for us to get a song thrush.

I don't count the
rooks because the rookery is in the garden and we can hardly fail to notice
those!

we don't get rooks ;-)

But we used to see dozens of bluetits and chaffinches.

Bluetits are insect eaters. I get them peeling the aphids of my
honeysuckle. But you're pesticide-free so you should have plenty of food
for them too.

It's a puzzle, because you've got plenty of space and variety there. Are
birds disappearing from the farmland around you? (This is a question,
not a judgement ;-) )

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

Message from Sacha on Mon, 25 Oct
2004 10:53:55 leylandii hedge overtrimmed - more qusteions.:

On 25/10/04 12:58 am, in article , "ned"
wrote:

snip
My experience is that grass grows well enough up to and under my
hedge.
Even in the drought conditions of 2003 the only patch of grass to
suffer was where an apple tree had spread its roots from the other
side of the leylandii hedge.
Many things will grow under and through the hedge. I have trouble
keeping my hedge free of intruders.


How high is your hedge and how old? IME, nothing grows easily under
leylandii, except perhaps, ivy.

How interesting! My experience is a little different. An ivy adjacent
to a leylandii tree kept at 10' just won't grow, yet the grass grows
right to the tree's edge and an adjacent lavatera grows and flowers
vigorously. The link between cause and effect might not be as clear as
many think.


--

On 30/10/04 10:41, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes

It's very strange - not your increase but the decline here. As far as we
know, nothing has changed in terms of habitat or feeding or predators. The
only thing is the sparrowhawks but I really don't think they can account for
this drop in numbers.
Blackbirds are the most numerous and thrush the least.

Song thrushes have been declining over the years. We get mistle
thrushes, especially in the winter when they come for the holly berries
in the front garden, but it's rare for us to get a song thrush.

We get song thrushes but not many - at a guess, I'd say three. We thought
we'd lost them altogether but a few were seen this year.

I don't count the
rooks because the rookery is in the garden and we can hardly fail to notice
those!

we don't get rooks ;-)

Heaven alone knows what they eat but they seem to go gleaning when the
fields are harvested. They disappear for quite a large part of the summer
and then suddenly return out of the blue.

But we used to see dozens of bluetits and chaffinches.

Bluetits are insect eaters. I get them peeling the aphids of my
honeysuckle. But you're pesticide-free so you should have plenty of food
for them too.

Oh, there's plenty of food for them and every encouragement but numbers have
dropped, nonetheless.

It's a puzzle, because you've got plenty of space and variety there. Are
birds disappearing from the farmland around you? (This is a question,
not a judgement ;-) )

I think the numbers are dropping off generally. Our nearest farmer is
organic in the larger part of his land but about 5 more houses have been
built in the village in the last 5 years, many of whom own cats......I can't
help wondering if this contributed to the decline, though I doubt it would
account for all of it.
Many of the smaller birds, blue tits, finches, robin, like harvesting
insects from the windows' many corners. The windows are all leaded in stone
mullions, so give a lot of 'shelter' for small flies, spiders etc.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In article , Sacha
writes

I think the numbers are dropping off generally. Our nearest farmer is
organic in the larger part of his land but about 5 more houses have been
built in the village in the last 5 years, many of whom own cats......I can't
help wondering if this contributed to the decline, though I doubt it would
account for all of it.

We have cats, as do many of our neighbours - there's around 6 cats
regularly use our tiny garden.

I think I read somewhere that the increasing popularity of bird feeders
and reasonable quality bird food is becoming an important resource to
birds.

Many of the smaller birds, blue tits, finches, robin, like harvesting
insects from the windows' many corners. The windows are all leaded in stone
mullions, so give a lot of 'shelter' for small flies, spiders etc.

Lovely! Our birds are too nervous to come within about 3 ft of windows -
at least when you're in a position to watch them.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

On 30/10/04 15:31, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes

I think the numbers are dropping off generally. Our nearest farmer is
organic in the larger part of his land but about 5 more houses have been
built in the village in the last 5 years, many of whom own cats......I can't
help wondering if this contributed to the decline, though I doubt it would
account for all of it.

We have cats, as do many of our neighbours - there's around 6 cats
regularly use our tiny garden.

I think I read somewhere that the increasing popularity of bird feeders
and reasonable quality bird food is becoming an important resource to
birds.

I don't even want to think what we spend on peanuts and bird seed each year!
All the greenhouses have feeders in them and so do various bits of the
garden. But it has to be said that the birds do a great job on the insects,
too!

Many of the smaller birds, blue tits, finches, robin, like harvesting
insects from the windows' many corners. The windows are all leaded in stone
mullions, so give a lot of 'shelter' for small flies, spiders etc.

Lovely! Our birds are too nervous to come within about 3 ft of windows -
at least when you're in a position to watch them.

We have a lot of climbers on just about every available wall space and that
might increase their confidence. There's always something for them to dive
into quickly if they feel threatened. But last year, we stuck a forked pole
in the border outside the office window and strung bags of peanuts, fat and
a bag of odds and ends to help nest-building and it was an absolute joy to
watch. The squabbling and competition was quite something to behold!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes
in that it doesn't host a lot of insects and other food either on its
leaves or in its litter.

Sorry to divert the thread here, but what is the general position
regarding the litter of leylandii and other conifers? I'm just in the
process of removing half a dozen varied conifers - mainly because the
new greenhouse needs to go close to them. I'm shredding the smaller
branches, including green and brown - and I'm not sure whether to take
the results to the council tip or use them in some way. I can probably
spare a bit of space to allow them to rot down a bit - but,
notwithstanding the amount of time they might take, will they be of any
use either as mulch or as soil conditioner? If so, should they be
rotted down separately, mulched straightaway or added to other
compostings?

My immediate thought would be that they are too "acidic" to be of much
use as a general bed tonic? Smelled fantastic whilst shredding,
though

--
regards andyw

"news" wrote in message
...
In message , Nick Maclaren
writes
in that it doesn't host a lot of insects and other food either on
its
leaves or in its litter.

Sorry to divert the thread here, but what is the general position
regarding the litter of leylandii and other conifers? I'm just in
the
process of removing half a dozen varied conifers - mainly because
the
new greenhouse needs to go close to them. I'm shredding the smaller
branches, including green and brown - and I'm not sure whether to
take
the results to the council tip or use them in some way. I can
probably
spare a bit of space to allow them to rot down a bit - but,
notwithstanding the amount of time they might take, will they be of
any
use either as mulch or as soil conditioner? If so, should they be
rotted down separately, mulched straightaway or added to other
compostings?

My immediate thought would be that they are too "acidic" to be of
much
use as a general bed tonic? Smelled fantastic whilst shredding,
though

Yes, it does smell great, doesn't it.
I use the clippings before shredding as a path mulch - gives a
wonderful soft woodland feel to the path and helps suppress weeds,
and when shredded, as a compost. The latter takes up to a year to
degrade but I add no hastener to it, it just lays quietly behind the
garage, along with the fallen leaves and it breaks down to a lovely
peaty texture. I've had no adverse effects when used in pots or when
planting out.
I wouldn't go so far as to claim that its a soil 'tonic' but it seems
to improve texture.

--
ned

http://www.bugsandweeds.co.uk
last update 15.10.2004

Yes Ned, there are some magnificently kept leylandii hedges. I, as a garden maintenance man myself (almost 9 years self-employed, picked up much knowledge and experience, but still hesitate to describe myself as a 'gardener' just yet!) am in care of several of them, including the fabulous golden Castlewellan variety.

But, whilst there indeed are many a cowboy out there in my sphere of employment, I have also encountered many the client who will insist and assert their will on you and their plants, even in the face of your best and sincerest advice. Even when there is easy money to be made from those types and their stubborn ways!

Currently, I am 'debating' with a very controlling couple who want me to reduce a Castlewellan and Leylandii Cypress hedge by several feet. I could easily charge them £300/400 for doing this (the leylandii is about 70/80 feet long, Castlewellan arounf 15 feet long). And they are happy with that cost. But, I am unconvinced at this moment if they will 'green-up' again on top as has been suggested by a few in this thread.

My only comfort may be that, as it's only the top coming down to old wood, that the lower parts will continue to grow and eventually grow through the nasty scar on the top (a few years?) well enough to eventually trim as you would the top of any hedge.

But any one with advice on that would be welcomed, I am nervous about doing this and seriously considering asking them to get someone else to do it!

Terry Deans