"Terryc" wrote in message
...
0tterbot wrote:

without wanting to be offensive, afaict if they rely on water allocations
from govts when it's become clear that's not reliable in any way, they're
just not going to make it & there's nothing anyone can do about that.

Well, they have no alternative really. The government forces the area to
be irrigation. To be viable non-irrigation in that area, you would need an
order of magntude more land

It is just another government cock up in agriculture.

everyone benefits from a hardcore dose of completely new thinking,

That is the mantra they feed us, but it has never been true. Once again
they are screwing the family farms to the benefit of the rich. I've been
hearing this hollow ring for over 40 years.

well, i'm not actually 40 years old, so i haven't ;-)

it's true though. while it troubles me that family farms are being screwed
over to benefit corporations (cubbie station anyone?!) that doesn't negate
the fact that many family farms have been doing things all wrong off their
own bat & nobody has had anything else to do with that. and many of them
still DO despite everything we are able to know now. farm1 gave just a
handful of examples.

unfortunately, some people just think that to do things differently or to
try different things means they've been wrong, & they don't want to accept
they were wrong. shrug

Rest of your post is plainly wrong.

what, john howard _hasn't_ lived his entire life as if it's 1952? ;-)

This farm has been trying
alternatives for 30 years, but unless you start with money to burn or are
a stupid gambler, it is just irresponsible to risk everything.

fair statement - but many things are cheap or free. equally, it's just as
irresponsible to do nothing differently. in & of itself, lack of money
doesn't seem to be the reason.

Now I see that lemming is about to screw all our famers again by allowing
GM pollution into crops.

i am still too enraged about that to email them, yet. gah!!!!
kylie

it's true though. while it troubles me that family farms are being screwed
over to benefit corporations (cubbie station anyone?!)

Kylie can you tell me exactly what is going on at Cubbie this year? How many
folk have left Dirrin because of the drought. What the plantings are this
season? Cubbie gets water when the Balonne floods. At the moment the Balone
is flowing north of Beardmore dam, that water will never reach Cubbie.
On a positive but sad note, my tanks overflowed last night for the first
time since installation. 40% to 120% in a week. It is sad because the ground
at the base of the tanks did not need the water.
Jim

SG1 wrote:
my tanks overflowed last night for the first
time since installation. 40% to 120% in a week. It is sad because the ground
at the base of the tanks did not need the water.

That is were you install the "water feature".


What I did with my rainwater tanks was to run a 6" wide, 3' deep trench
past/through the overflow pipe outfall down to the back yard and
backfill with blue metal.

The idea is that the excess water sinks into the trench and runs
horizontally through the blue metal into the root zone of large bushes
and trees.

Alternatvely, since I have two 90mm overflow outlets (to match 2x 90mm
inflow), one feeds the trench and the other runs through 90mm pipe along
the fence to act as a flusher on the waterfalls off the water feature
(well, it looked nice in the back corner).

0tterbot wrote:

well, i'm not actually 40 years old, so i haven't ;-)

I'm older, but I did benefit from early exposure,

that doesn't negate the fact that many family farms have been
doing things all wrong off their own bat

I am not sure about the "own bat" angle, but agree that many are not
making any effort to update practises.


fair statement - but many things are cheap or free.

They are the easy ones. For this farm and I guess many others, the major
changes are not free. e.g. sodd seeder is ~$500K, which farm can not
borrow without absolute guarantee of water to grow crops to make sales
to make repayments.


I know there are plenty of famers who are doing the right thing, but I
also know there are quite a few that are trapped by current circmstances.

BTW this farm actually had shelter belts and salt bush planting, plus
other stuff well before it was even widely considered. It is also
returning one area to native vegetation.

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:12:29 +1100, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote in aus.gardens:

"0tterbot" wrote in message


i was interested to read recently that one MUST have a flush-diverter
for "safe" rainwater. we don't have one of those (although i do want one,
to keep the tank cleaner, but we don't have one yet).

Those flush diverters also remove a lot of water that could be going into
your tank. We don't have one and never have and when I asked a firend about
his, he was very dismissive of it because by the time it was full and ready
to allow water into his tank, the shower had often passed on and he was not
getting the run off into his tank. He eventually disconnected it.


I have one and I have made it more inefficient because my tanks are
full all the time. though I only have 5000litres of storage I just
cannot use the water quick enough. At least the tanks are clean
inside. If you live in a city or town I think the diverter is a very
good idea.


Regards
Harold

Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum - Lucretius

"0tterbot" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message

Ah! I suspect you aren't too far from me. I wonder if you are within
cooee of the Altenburg?

the very same :-) (dh's shop is actually literally within cooee of the
altenburg!)

Well blow me down, no wonder we both have the same sorts of weather
patterns!

Unless you married a man very much older than yourself, I can only think of
3 blokes who might fit the right age profile to be your husband. M., who
used to work for Paul in another town and who comes from a family famed for
it's Bushranger ancestry, M., who has an interest in Land Rovers (but I've
been to his house and his backyard doesn't sound right according to what
you've said about your place - he has a standing invite to visit us at any
time), and the vet, whose partner R. has just had a baby boy, W.

i'll never guess where you are, will i?

I'm sure you've driven past my gate lots of times :-)) I'm cagey about my
location as someone tried to murder my husband and although he is still in
Goulburn gaol, I know he's computer savvy and I don't know what sort of Net
access crims have.

Wanna do lunch or morning/afternoon tea sometime?

"Terryc" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:

********. Leaving wheat stubble is a good example of something that
wasn't done 40 years ago, so is allowing a long fallow between sowing
wheat crops, so is returning areas of farming to trees because it
actually increases productivity because of the protection it gives to
crops and animals.

Err, none of this is new thinking and I am talking about longer term.

40 years is the time frame you mentioned and that is a very short time span
but one in which those things that I mentioned were (and still are in some
quarters) considered to be "new thinking" in the farming community. Even
today if you read 'The Land' the sodding farmers organisations go on and on
about how government bans on land clearing are stuffing up farming.

I suspect that your memory is not serving you well.

"SG1" wrote in message
...

it's true though. while it troubles me that family farms are being
screwed over to benefit corporations (cubbie station anyone?!)

Kylie can you tell me exactly what is going on at Cubbie this year?

actually no - i\ve not been following it. i got rage about it :-)

How many
folk have left Dirrin because of the drought. What the plantings are this
season? Cubbie gets water when the Balonne floods. At the moment the
Balone is flowing north of Beardmore dam, that water will never reach
Cubbie.
On a positive but sad note, my tanks overflowed last night for the first
time since installation. 40% to 120% in a week. It is sad because the
ground at the base of the tanks did not need the water.
Jim

that is maddening when that happens. i have one very small tank which is
only ever either empty or full to overflowing, very annoying. i liked
terry's idea.
kylie

"Terryc" wrote in message
...
fair statement - but many things are cheap or free.

They are the easy ones. For this farm and I guess many others, the major
changes are not free. e.g. sodd seeder is ~$500K, which farm can not
borrow without absolute guarantee of water to grow crops to make sales to
make repayments.

yes, i understand. in fact, have a similar problem myself - we don't have
the capital atm for better fences & other inputs & so forth in order to do
things to bring forward the day that the farm pays its own mortgage (never
mind making a profit!!) so i realise how impossible the situation can be. it
doesn't stop anyone from starting to do the cheaper things, though, which is
where i suspect the solution lies more effectively if everyone got involved,
however, the time that's already passed while a fairly conservative
community wasn't doing very much due to being in denial has now been wasted.

it bothers me that any govt programs about farming don't seem to reward
looking forward, it's more about propping up what's already not working.
but, don't get me started on governments g it's absolutely not their
fault, but the glacial pace of change they pursue (or not) just makes me
insane sometimes.

lastly, even though i grew up in an irrigation area, i can't claim to know
masses about the subject, however, it seems odd to me that for so long
people have had faith that irrigated water would always be available despite
the inherent lack of logic in thinking that. which doesn't mean it's not
entirely unfair that people have been promised access they can't now get
(etc etc). the other thing i notice about our home town is that most of the
farmers there are really backwards g, & i wonder if access to irrigation
has created a mindset that is part of the problem - i.e. just take your
water & grow rice or grapes & everything's sweet. instead for clamouring for
a share of something that's no longer there to be had, it might be more
effective to think about different types of crops or livestock instead,
instead of everyone getting involved in fighting for access to something
it's becoming clearer that nobody has absolute right to. signing a piece of
paper doesn't mean the river is going to be full. this is the sort of thing
i mean.

I know there are plenty of famers who are doing the right thing, but I
also know there are quite a few that are trapped by current circmstances.

BTW this farm actually had shelter belts and salt bush planting, plus
other stuff well before it was even widely considered. It is also
returning one area to native vegetation.

well, good luck to your relatives, i hope it goes all right.
kylie

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"0tterbot" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message

Ah! I suspect you aren't too far from me. I wonder if you are within
cooee of the Altenburg?

the very same :-) (dh's shop is actually literally within cooee of the
altenburg!)

Well blow me down,

not this week - the wind let up g!

no wonder we both have the same sorts of weather
patterns!

Unless you married a man very much older than yourself, I can only think
of 3 blokes who might fit the right age profile to be your husband. M.,
who used to work for Paul in another town and who comes from a family
famed for it's Bushranger ancestry, M., who has an interest in Land Rovers
(but I've been to his house and his backyard doesn't sound right according
to what you've said about your place - he has a standing invite to visit
us at any time), and the vet, whose partner R. has just had a baby boy, W.

he's not any of them - i'm just trying to work out who they all are (the
rest of you, just do what you were doing... ;-). i know r. because that's
how we found our place! & i've met w. although he was asleep) but not the
husband afaik, as our dog goes to the vet only when necessary, & it hasn't
been. i know an m. very well who likes landrovers but likes bread more - is
that him? although they live in town, so probably not. not sure about the
other m. except the butcher who's from that (notorious ;-) family, so that's
not right i don't think!! we opened dh's shop only in february - it's very
close to the a. but not on the main street (his name's w.) if that rings a
bell??

i'll never guess where you are, will i?

I'm sure you've driven past my gate lots of times :-))

that is just so funny!

I'm cagey about my
location as someone tried to murder my husband and although he is still in
Goulburn gaol, I know he's computer savvy and I don't know what sort of
Net access crims have.

right, that's not funny at all, but it pays to be cagey anyway, i reckon.

Wanna do lunch or morning/afternoon tea sometime?

of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! however, now i feel anxious & mortified with
shyness so we'll need to work up to it ;-) i wonder if we have met already?
i meet so many people & often find that either i don't remember them, or
they don't remember me (it occurs to me as i am blah-ing on & suddenly
realise they don't even know why i am talking to them g. and most likely
vice-versa!)

isn't that fun??! gawd, you probably knew my rooster's great-great
grandfather or something g
kylie

SWMBO & I had a good laugh about the water feature.

Cubbie is a media beatup, they only get water when the balonne river floods.
We live on the next river east and we have had one minor flood in the last 8
years. The Balonne has had the same. We got some millionaire cotton growers
this year, but NOT from cotton not enuf h20. Grew wheat instead, only needed
2 waterings instead of zillions for cotton. Kept the local grain receiver
open in what was a lousy year for almost all.
Anyway have a good one.
Jim

FarmI wrote:

40 years is the time frame you mentioned and that is a very short time span
but one in which those things that I mentioned were (and still are in some
quarters) considered to be "new thinking" in the farming community.

Lets no go there. It is too frightening.

Even
today if you read 'The Land' the sodding farmers organisations go on and on
about how government bans on land clearing are stuffing up farming.

True,but I do note that quite a few farmers have been equally stating
the opposite case for longer.

i do not see famers as a unitary mob, but a diverse collective of ideas.
Sadly too conservative in their approach to their "representatives".

"0tterbot" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message

Unless you married a man very much older than yourself, I can only think
of 3 blokes who might fit the right age profile to be your husband. M.,
who used to work for Paul in another town and who comes from a family
famed for it's Bushranger ancestry, M., who has an interest in Land
Rovers (but I've been to his house and his backyard doesn't sound right
according to what you've said about your place - he has a standing invite
to visit us at any time), and the vet, whose partner R. has just had a
baby boy, W.

he's not any of them - i'm just trying to work out who they all are (the
rest of you, just do what you were doing... ;-). i know r. because that's
how we found our place! & i've met w. although he was asleep) but not the
husband afaik, as our dog goes to the vet only when necessary, & it hasn't
been. i know an m. very well who likes landrovers but likes bread more -
is that him? although they live in town, so probably not. not sure about
the other m. except the butcher who's from that (notorious ;-) family, so
that's not right i don't think!!

Bingo - you got all three right!

we opened dh's shop only in february - it's very
close to the a. but not on the main street (his name's w.) if that rings a
bell??

Ah! No, doesn't ring a bell. Is he down the street that has the business
where R works on the corner? I've only investigated one of those businesses
so far - the one with the old things in it that an old fart like me can
remember using as a child at times.

i'll never guess where you are, will i?

I'm sure you've driven past my gate lots of times :-))

that is just so funny!

Hey! My place doesn't look that funny!

Wanna do lunch or morning/afternoon tea sometime?

of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! however, now i feel anxious & mortified with
shyness so we'll need to work up to it ;-)

That's fine by me as I'm a bit busy at the moment and with sodding Xmas just
round the corner (which I'm trying to ignore), perhaps we could do it in the
new year?

i wonder if we have met already?

Perhaps but then given that you are probably 20 years younger than me and I
tend to hang around with old farts like myself, we may or may not.

i meet so many people & often find that either i don't remember them, or
they don't remember me (it occurs to me as i am blah-ing on & suddenly
realise they don't even know why i am talking to them g. and most likely
vice-versa!)

I have similar problems :-)) My husband can never understand how I can
strike up a conversation with someone in a supermarket queue and learn the
most fascinating things about them in such a short space of time.

isn't that fun??! gawd, you probably knew my rooster's great-great
grandfather or something g

Can't remember where my rooster came from now but he was local (not your
town).

If you have Jack Russell dogs then we could be related. Both my boys are
from your town - descended from the dogs belonging to Jill, the wife of
Anthony where R used to work before she moved to where she works now.

"Terryc" wrote in message
...
FarmI wrote:

40 years is the time frame you mentioned and that is a very short time
span but one in which those things that I mentioned were (and still are
in some quarters) considered to be "new thinking" in the farming
community.

Lets no go there. It is too frightening.

Yeah, sadly.

Even today if you read 'The Land' the sodding farmers organisations go
on and on about how government bans on land clearing are stuffing up
farming.

True,but I do note that quite a few farmers have been equally stating the
opposite case for longer.

Yes, some certainly have done that, but what disturbs me is those who seem
to think it's a good idea. The case that Monsanto brought against the
farmer in Canada should have scared most farmers silly, and most farmers
should by now know about herbicide resistance and the potential problems
this could bring to Oz given our ghastly weed problems, so I can't
understand where they are coming from.

i do not see famers as a unitary mob, but a diverse collective of ideas.
Sadly too conservative in their approach to their "representatives".

Even their representatives are probably also a diverse mob too. I certainly
know that our politicians are. Teh farming organisations are the ones that
give me the pip though as they really aren't really representative at all.
I only know one farmer who belongs to one of these bodies and he's a total
and utter wally.

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...

Bingo - you got all three right!

omg!! only another 47 years & i'll be a local!! ;-)

Ah! No, doesn't ring a bell. Is he down the street that has the business
where R works on the corner? I've only investigated one of those
businesses so far - the one with the old things in it that an old fart
like me can remember using as a child at times.

heh, we have two of those for when we don't really have enough power in the
evenings. unfortunately, i banned their use due to the horrible smell. :-/
that's the right street, you will work it out eventually i'm sure.

That's fine by me as I'm a bit busy at the moment and with sodding Xmas
just round the corner (which I'm trying to ignore), perhaps we could do it
in the new year?

ok, lets!

i wonder if we have met already?

Perhaps but then given that you are probably 20 years younger than me and
I tend to hang around with old farts like myself, we may or may not.

well, i have met lots of old farts too!

i meet so many people & often find that either i don't remember them, or
they don't remember me (it occurs to me as i am blah-ing on & suddenly
realise they don't even know why i am talking to them g. and most
likely vice-versa!)

I have similar problems :-)) My husband can never understand how I can
strike up a conversation with someone in a supermarket queue and learn the
most fascinating things about them in such a short space of time.

hmm, i hear asio is recruiting atm!!!

isn't that fun??! gawd, you probably knew my rooster's great-great
grandfather or something g

Can't remember where my rooster came from now but he was local (not your
town).

If you have Jack Russell dogs then we could be related. Both my boys are
from your town - descended from the dogs belonging to Jill, the wife of
Anthony where R used to work before she moved to where she works now.

erg, now you've lost me & i'd be guessing. my dog's a bitzer & came from
canberra, though. i do like jack russells - they're lovely.

now i'll have to scrutinise every old fart i see with 2 jack russells g.
was going to ask bread-m. last night who you are, but i decided that would
spoil the fun!
kylie