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#77
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article ,
Jan Flora wrote: I don't like to shop on line as credit card interest rates are too high so I limit their use to what I can pay off each month. Get a debit card. No interest. We got one just for shopping online and on ebay. (We don't believe in credit cards.) Jan I do have a debit card. It's not recommended that a debit card be used for on line purchases as there is no way to recover the funds if there is a problem. Once the money is gone, it's gone. Credit card purchases have their own built in warantee. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
#78
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
Omelet expounded:
I do have a debit card. It's not recommended that a debit card be used for on line purchases as there is no way to recover the funds if there is a problem. Once the money is gone, it's gone. Credit card purchases have their own built in warantee. That depends. My debit card is a MasterCard, and it has all the protection of a credit card. And I've had to use that protection in the past, so I know it works. -- Ann, gardening in Zone 6a South of Boston, Massachusetts e-mail address is not checked ****************************** |
#79
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article ,
Ann wrote: Omelet expounded: I do have a debit card. It's not recommended that a debit card be used for on line purchases as there is no way to recover the funds if there is a problem. Once the money is gone, it's gone. Credit card purchases have their own built in warantee. That depends. My debit card is a MasterCard, and it has all the protection of a credit card. And I've had to use that protection in the past, so I know it works. Ok, that's good info, thanks! My debit card is a visa. I'll have to talk to my bank. I am new to debit cards. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
#80
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
"Omelet" wrote in message news In article , Ann wrote: Omelet expounded: I do have a debit card. It's not recommended that a debit card be used for on line purchases as there is no way to recover the funds if there is a problem. Once the money is gone, it's gone. Credit card purchases have their own built in warantee. That depends. My debit card is a MasterCard, and it has all the protection of a credit card. And I've had to use that protection in the past, so I know it works. Ok, that's good info, thanks! My debit card is a visa. I'll have to talk to my bank. I am new to debit cards. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson Mine is has the visa logo also. Any debit cards with a major credit card logo have the same perks as a credit without all the downfalls. or that's the way it works around here anyway. definitely check with your bank - but if you have the logo - you should be fine. rae |
#81
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article ,
"Rachael Simpson" wrote: Mine is has the visa logo also. Any debit cards with a major credit card logo have the same perks as a credit without all the downfalls. or that's the way it works around here anyway. definitely check with your bank - but if you have the logo - you should be fine. rae Thanks again. :-) I have managed to pay off all of my credit card debt and am trying to totally avoid using them at all. Interest rates are usery! -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
#82
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
On Thu, 31 May 2007 13:58:37 -0700, wrote:
the problem is, all carbon based fuels release CO2 when burned. what we need is to break the hydrogen oxygen bond in water and then burn the hydrogen back to water. plants do this, they use solar energy to knock the hydrogen off the water, use the energy of the electrons to form a covalent bond (organic) that stores the energy (using CO2). That is really clean energy. Ingrid That sounds nice but it costs significantly more to extract hydrogen from water then to produce it any other way. The most economical way at present to produce hydrogen on a massive scale is steam reforming of the methane in natural gas or coal gas in which the gas is combined with superheated steam, releasing hydrogen and carbon dioxide. CH4+2H2O=4H2+CO2 if I got my chemistry right. This is the Bush hydrogen initiative. No improvement in carbon dioxide emissions, but it would be a boon for the natural gas and coal industries. And that's the real point of it. Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove "Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought. To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears. To be led by a fool is to be led by the opportunists who control the fool. To be led by a thief is to offer up your most precious treasures to be stolen. To be led by a liar is to ask to be lied to. To be led by a tyrant is to sell yourself and those you love into slavery." Octavia Butler |
#83
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
plants do it very economically. we just need to figure out how to
replicate it, probably using variations on the organic enzymes plants use and do it in vitro. Ingrid On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 01:02:40 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love" wrote: On Thu, 31 May 2007 13:58:37 -0700, wrote: the problem is, all carbon based fuels release CO2 when burned. what we need is to break the hydrogen oxygen bond in water and then burn the hydrogen back to water. plants do this, they use solar energy to knock the hydrogen off the water, use the energy of the electrons to form a covalent bond (organic) that stores the energy (using CO2). That is really clean energy. Ingrid That sounds nice but it costs significantly more to extract hydrogen from water then to produce it any other way. The most economical way at present to produce hydrogen on a massive scale is steam reforming of the methane in natural gas or coal gas in which the gas is combined with superheated steam, releasing hydrogen and carbon dioxide. CH4+2H2O=4H2+CO2 if I got my chemistry right. This is the Bush hydrogen initiative. No improvement in carbon dioxide emissions, but it would be a boon for the natural gas and coal industries. And that's the real point of it. Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove "Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought. To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears. To be led by a fool is to be led by the opportunists who control the fool. To be led by a thief is to offer up your most precious treasures to be stolen. To be led by a liar is to ask to be lied to. To be led by a tyrant is to sell yourself and those you love into slavery." Octavia Butler |
#84
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article ,
wrote: plants do it very economically. we just need to figure out how to replicate it, probably using variations on the organic enzymes plants use and do it in vitro. Ingrid On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 01:02:40 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love" wrote: On Thu, 31 May 2007 13:58:37 -0700, wrote: the problem is, all carbon based fuels release CO2 when burned. what we need is to break the hydrogen oxygen bond in water and then burn the hydrogen back to water. plants do this, they use solar energy to knock the hydrogen off the water, use the energy of the electrons to form a covalent bond (organic) that stores the energy (using CO2). That is really clean energy. Ingrid That sounds nice but it costs significantly more to extract hydrogen from water then to produce it any other way. The most economical way at present to produce hydrogen on a massive scale is steam reforming of the methane in natural gas or coal gas in which the gas is combined with superheated steam, releasing hydrogen and carbon dioxide. CH4+2H2O=4H2+CO2 if I got my chemistry right. This is the Bush hydrogen initiative. No improvement in carbon dioxide emissions, but it would be a boon for the natural gas and coal industries. And that's the real point of it. Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove "Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought. To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears. To be led by a fool is to be led by the opportunists who control the fool. To be led by a thief is to offer up your most precious treasures to be stolen. To be led by a liar is to ask to be lied to. To be led by a tyrant is to sell yourself and those you love into slavery." Octavia Butler If you are planing on using the Citric Acid Cycle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid_cycle to power your car, you can plan on zipping along at the speed of a growing plant. CO2 release is only a problem if you add to the atmospheric load of CO2. CO2 already exists in the atmosphere where it is part of the CO2 Cycle http://www.google.com/search?q=CO2+c...aq=t&rls=org.m ozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a . The Problem is in increasing the amount of CO2 by the introduction of fossil fuels. Working within the CO2 Cycle is a zero sum games with no CO2 increase. H2 + O2 is a great source for energy but I don't think you want a pressurized cylinder of it under the back seat of your car. If H2 could be produced as needed, it may be safe (depending on the process). Electric cars powered by central power stations across a grid would, to me, make the most sense for daily needs. This would allow CO2 scrubbing of smoke stacks to eliminate CO2 from being returned to the atmosphere and allow the use of bio-mass for fuel. Fossil fuel is the enemy. - Billy Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly) |
#85
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
not citric acid, not electron transport. use first stage of light
reaction in photosynthesis. H2O + photon -2 H+ and electrons and O I am thinking more about make the hydrogen as you go AND have some kind of storage for the hydrogen that is more stable, like H2CO3 = H+ and HCO3. The actual electrons are what fuels ATP production during the light cycle so electrons can be stored. Ingrid On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:10:13 -0700, Billy Rose wrote: If you are planing on using the Citric Acid Cycle H2 + O2 is a great source for energy but I don't think you want a pressurized cylinder of it under the back seat of your car. |
#86
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
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#87
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
electrical plugs just put off the problem. somebody somewhere gotta
burn something to make the electricity. if they are making hydrogen from water, fine, if it is nuclear less than ideal. platinum is typically used to catalyze the splitting of water, used with an electrical current in an ionic but not necessarily acidic environment. Ingrid On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:35:35 -0700, Billy Rose wrote: Even more practical would be the electric plug in vehicle. |
#88
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
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#89
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
Hmmm .... My 2 cents.
My thinking goes likes this. I like my modern technological life. I like my computers, cars, lights, HBO and modern medical techniques. I refuse to live in a cave. Street maybe, if I keep spending the way I am Solar and wind energy together is too expensive for the small amount of electricity one receives. In order to get large amounts of energy one has to destroy something to get it: be it coal, nuclear, Fusion is just a dream a false hope, wood or any other agricultural source. If one (ok the world) uses agricultural sources, bread will be twenty dollars a loaf, greater starvation among the populated world. Coal, CO2 scrubbers still leaves toxic waste in our land fills. Hydrogen, needs electricity to extract from water. Bio-mass - Agicultural, kiss all forest good-by, not just the rain forest. If .... If and only if they can make them safe and put its waste in outer space, are the breeder nuclear reactors. "The old saying - Is anything safe? NO". The only way to have a clean, healthy earth for everyone on this planet, IS POPULATION REDUCTION. ie: make bombs not babies (ok, ok, forget the reverse pun of the sixty's vietnam) just stop breeding like humans. However, not sure of the future. My next truck will have an E85 engine. I have read some where that all one has to do is combine 85 gallons of ethanal with 15 gallons of regular gas. Buy a still, I have the 10 acres of land to raise corn and have 6 acres of woods (energy source for the still). Its all about me, let the world starve. Conservation is a lost cause without population reduction. I am single with no kids. With no social life one has the time to do the things listed above. So I agree with the original poster: Home Gardening "is" Becoming Even More Imperative. Enjoy Life ......... Dan. In article , Billy Rose wrote: In article , wrote: electrical plugs just put off the problem. somebody somewhere gotta burn something to make the electricity. True, but then you can use bio-mass and your not burning fossil fuel. Additionally, you have the option of scrubbing the smoke stack to sequester the CO2 and reduce the over all amount in the atmosphere. if they are making hydrogen from water, fine, if it is nuclear less than ideal. About as far as you can get from ideal, IMHO. In 30 - 40 years, fusion reactors should be viable with lots of safe, clean energy. Why mess up the planet for a 40 year fix, when it creates more problems than it solves? platinum is typically used to catalyze the splitting of water, used with an electrical current in an ionic but not necessarily acidic environment. The April '07 issue of Scientific American addresses the issue of hydrogen storage. The choices are (1) compressed hyrdogen, (2) liquid hydrogen (Ever see the demonstration where they dip a rose into liquid helium? Same kinda deal) (3) reversible "hydrogen metal hydrides" (they generate H+ in response to heat and a catalyst and, they need to be removed to recharge) and (4) "hydrogen adsorbents" that work like sponges (don't need to be removed to recharge but research just beginning). Unfortunately, the full article isn't available on line without a subscription but you could find it at the library and, the graphics are very helpful in helping understand the problems involved. Ingrid On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:35:35 -0700, Billy Rose - Billy Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly) wrote: Even more practical would be the electric plug in vehicle. -- Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically. |
#90
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article
, "Dan L." wrote: Hmmm .... My 2 cents. Uh, nice string of pronouncements Dan. Usually it is nice if you can give them a little authority, names, places, logic based on an acceptable premise. You know, something like that would have been nice, instead of coming down the mountain with your clay tablets. (Yeah, I know, sarcastic, people have told me that. My thinking goes likes this. I like my modern technological life. I like my computers, cars, lights, HBO and modern medical techniques. I refuse to live in a cave. Street maybe, if I keep spending the way I am Keep your technology but Americans presently use 25% of the worlds energy. That will change. We can look forward to a diminished way of life. Sorry Dave. (Jeeze, I sound like Hal, the computer) The alternative is to send out the troops with bayonets fixed and subjugate the world. Since we are not alone in the nuclear club, some of those suckers may not want to go down easily. How do you feel about trying to swim in the non-radioactive end of the pool? Solar and wind energy together is too expensive for the small amount of electricity one receives. In order to get large amounts of energy one has to destroy something to get it: be it coal, nuclear, Fusion is just a dream a false hope, wood or any other agricultural source. If one (ok the world) uses agricultural sources, bread will be twenty dollars a loaf, greater starvation among the populated world. Presently, wind, photovoltaic, and hydro power (including tides) is too little and more expensive than fossil fuel (if you don't count the social impact of global warming i.e. our extinction). Someone must have forgotten to tell the international consortium that is constructing a fusion reactor in France that Dave said it couldn't be done. Scrubbing smoke stacks with water and calcium hydroxide Ca(OH)2 gives you calcium carbonate and water. Chalk, Dave, chalk doesn't sound so polluting, does it? We are already over producing food (look at you waistline) and demographics say that the population of the planet should drop to replacement levels by 2050. Western Europe has been encouraging it's citizens to have more babies because the indigenous populations are declining. Pretty much the same deal for all industrialized nations. Coal, CO2 scrubbers still leaves toxic waste in our land fills. Hydrogen, needs electricity to extract from water. Bio-mass - Agicultural, kiss all forest good-by, not just the rain forest. There is even a new nut being introduced into Africa as a crop that grows well on dry marginally useful agricultural land that is 40% oil. We can keep our forests. Need to plant more actually. Maybe you will have to do without quite so much beef. That's all. If .... If and only if they can make them safe and put its waste in outer space, are the breeder nuclear reactors. "The old saying - Is anything safe? NO". Great way to live, with the sword of Damocles hanging over our heads. Thanks, but no. Fission can be buffed, tweaked, and polished but it is just too freaking dangerous. That argument aside, how are you going to transfer the energy down, by microwaves and fry migratory birds? The only way to have a clean, healthy earth for everyone on this planet, IS POPULATION REDUCTION. ie: make bombs not babies (ok, ok, forget the reverse pun of the sixty's vietnam) just stop breeding like humans. See above. Large families only make sense in in subsistence farming. However, not sure of the future. My next truck will have an E85 engine. I have read some where that all one has to do is combine 85 gallons of ethanal with 15 gallons of regular gas. Buy a still, I have the 10 acres of land to raise corn and have 6 acres of woods (energy source for the still). You haven't been reading this new group long, have you? Corn is grown with natural gas and petroleum. It is not efficient unless you are an oil company but not for consumers. Its all about me, let the world starve. Conservation is a lost cause without population reduction. I am single with no kids. With no social life one has the time to do the things listed above. A Cassandra in the wilderness, wandering in a hopeless quest, fade to black, the lights come up and everybody stands and goes home. Quite a martyr syndrome you have there Dave. You really need to lighten up there Dave. Ya know. Girls really like guys that can make them laugh. So I agree with the original poster: Home Gardening "is" Becoming Even More Imperative. Enjoy Life ......... Dan. I will. Thanks Dave. You really should read a book about this stuff some day. Life is a tight rope, but it's doable. In article , Billy Rose wrote: In article , wrote: electrical plugs just put off the problem. somebody somewhere gotta burn something to make the electricity. True, but then you can use bio-mass and your not burning fossil fuel. Additionally, you have the option of scrubbing the smoke stack to sequester the CO2 and reduce the over all amount in the atmosphere. if they are making hydrogen from water, fine, if it is nuclear less than ideal. About as far as you can get from ideal, IMHO. In 30 - 40 years, fusion reactors should be viable with lots of safe, clean energy. Why mess up the planet for a 40 year fix, when it creates more problems than it solves? platinum is typically used to catalyze the splitting of water, used with an electrical current in an ionic but not necessarily acidic environment. The April '07 issue of Scientific American addresses the issue of hydrogen storage. The choices are (1) compressed hyrdogen, (2) liquid hydrogen (Ever see the demonstration where they dip a rose into liquid helium? Same kinda deal) (3) reversible "hydrogen metal hydrides" (they generate H+ in response to heat and a catalyst and, they need to be removed to recharge) and (4) "hydrogen adsorbents" that work like sponges (don't need to be removed to recharge but research just beginning). Unfortunately, the full article isn't available on line without a subscription but you could find it at the library and, the graphics are very helpful in helping understand the problems involved. Ingrid On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:35:35 -0700, Billy Rose - Billy Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly) |
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