Hi Y'all,

A while back I mentioned a problem we are having with the local DOT
wanting to take out our water source thru our pasture. (don't remember
what thread it was on.) Got some good advice from some, but was
wondering what to do now.

For those who didn't catch it befo

We have a 20+ acre pasture outside of city/town limits. Currently we
have 9 horses and 5 cows placed there. There is a ditch, which is
actually a run-off of the South River, that runs thru the middle of the
pasture. The water source is critical, as you know for the animals
well-fare. Suddenly, (after cattle have been on that pasture for years)
DOT wants to go in and re-dig the ditch, and fill it with rocks (the big
landscaping kind). They are planning on taking out at least 5 acres of
our pasture, plus the water source. Filling it with rock will keep the
water from flowing deep enough for the cattle to cool down (cows don't
sweat, so in this heat we are having, they need at least 2-3ft of water
to stand in to cool themselves.) Finding another pasture is not an
option, can't afford to buy or rent another place. We are not getting
any help from the town or county officials. The neighbors near the
pasture don't want the work done either.

Someone on here (joe, was it? not sure..) mentioned that i should ask to
see their environmental impact report. I did, and they claim that I
don't have the right to see it. Say it's not necessary for me to see it.
They claim that the horses, *not* the cows who stand in the ditch most
of the time, are polluting the water. I don't see how, since no one has
had problems with their water locally. There have been cattle and horses
in that pasture for years, way before we ever got it to put ours on.

They plan to start their work mid-August. Is there anything else we can
do to fight this?

Thanks,
Rae

"rachael simpson" wrote in message
...
Hi Y'all,

A while back I mentioned a problem we are having with the local DOT
wanting to take out our water source thru our pasture. (don't remember
what thread it was on.) Got some good advice from some, but was wondering
what to do now.

For those who didn't catch it befo

We have a 20+ acre pasture outside of city/town limits. Currently we have
9 horses and 5 cows placed there. There is a ditch, which is actually a
run-off of the South River, that runs thru the middle of the pasture. The
water source is critical, as you know for the animals well-fare. Suddenly,
(after cattle have been on that pasture for years) DOT wants to go in and
re-dig the ditch, and fill it with rocks (the big landscaping kind). They
are planning on taking out at least 5 acres of our pasture, plus the water
source. Filling it with rock will keep the water from flowing deep enough
for the cattle to cool down (cows don't sweat, so in this heat we are
having, they need at least 2-3ft of water to stand in to cool themselves.)
Finding another pasture is not an option, can't afford to buy or rent
another place. We are not getting any help from the town or county
officials. The neighbors near the pasture don't want the work done either.

Someone on here (joe, was it? not sure..) mentioned that i should ask to
see their environmental impact report. I did, and they claim that I don't
have the right to see it. Say it's not necessary for me to see it. They
claim that the horses, *not* the cows who stand in the ditch most of the
time, are polluting the water. I don't see how, since no one has had
problems with their water locally. There have been cattle and horses in
that pasture for years, way before we ever got it to put ours on.

They plan to start their work mid-August. Is there anything else we can do
to fight this?

Thanks,
Rae


Missing information:

1) Where is "here"?

2) Your stream is a "run off"? You mean, it runs INTO the river? Yes, or no?

3) What water does the town claim is being polluted? The river? Drinking
water? Does the town get its drinking water from the river?

4) If the town does NOT get its water supply from the river, where DOES the
supply come from?

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:



Missing information:

sorry....
1) Where is "here"?

sampson county, roseboro town planning/ag zone, nc

2) Your stream is a "run off"? You mean, it runs INTO the river? Yes, or no?

no, doesn't run into, it branches off the river, excess from the river
runs into the ditch, it runs thru the pasture, and dead-ends on the
other end of the pasture, about 4 acres outside of the pasture.

3) What water does the town claim is being polluted? The river? Drinking
water? Does the town get its drinking water from the river?

I have no clue, can't them to elaborate as to what is *polluted*. Have
requested to see the report myself, but to no avail...

4) If the town does NOT get its water supply from the river, where DOES the
supply come from?

Town water comes from some tributaries of the cape fear river. The cape
fear and south rivers eventually meet, but that is counties away. So i
don't think that our water would have much to do with it. I don't know,
maybe I am thinking too small frame...

"rachael simpson" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:



Missing information:

sorry....
1) Where is "here"?

sampson county, roseboro town planning/ag zone, nc

2) Your stream is a "run off"? You mean, it runs INTO the river? Yes, or
no?

no, doesn't run into, it branches off the river, excess from the river
runs into the ditch, it runs thru the pasture, and dead-ends on the other
end of the pasture, about 4 acres outside of the pasture.

3) What water does the town claim is being polluted? The river? Drinking
water? Does the town get its drinking water from the river?

I have no clue, can't them to elaborate as to what is *polluted*. Have
requested to see the report myself, but to no avail...

4) If the town does NOT get its water supply from the river, where DOES
the supply come from?

Town water comes from some tributaries of the cape fear river. The cape
fear and south rivers eventually meet, but that is counties away. So i
don't think that our water would have much to do with it. I don't know,
maybe I am thinking too small frame...


OK. Step #1 is to call this governmental office:
http://www.enr.state.nc.us/

You need to find out if it's true that you "don't have the right to see the
environmental impact report". If you speak to someone who sounds unsure of
themselves, ask for their supervisor. If you continue having problems, tell
them your next phone call will be to the news departments of local TV
stations.

Step #2 is to drive around and see who, if anyone, lives where the stream
dead-ends. If nobody lives there, and maybe has a well for drinking water,
then something stinks really bad here.

On Jul 23, 8:37?am, rachael simpson
wrote:
Hi Y'all,

A while back I mentioned a problem we are having with the local DOT
wanting to take out our water source thru our pasture. (don't remember
what thread it was on.) Got some good advice from some, but was
wondering what to do now.

For those who didn't catch it befo

We have a 20+ acre pasture outside of city/town limits. Currently we
have 9 horses and 5 cows placed there. There is a ditch, which is
actually a run-off of the South River, that runs thru the middle of the
pasture. The water source is critical, as you know for the animals
well-fare. Suddenly, (after cattle have been on that pasture for years)
DOT wants to go in and re-dig the ditch, and fill it with rocks (the big
landscaping kind). They are planning on taking out at least 5 acres of
our pasture, plus the water source. Filling it with rock will keep the
water from flowing deep enough for the cattle to cool down (cows don't
sweat, so in this heat we are having, they need at least 2-3ft of water
to stand in to cool themselves.) Finding another pasture is not an
option, can't afford to buy or rent another place. We are not getting
any help from the town or county officials. The neighbors near the
pasture don't want the work done either.

Someone on here (joe, was it? not sure..) mentioned that i should ask to
see their environmental impact report. I did, and they claim that I
don't have the right to see it. Say it's not necessary for me to see it.
They claim that the horses, *not* the cows who stand in the ditch most
of the time, are polluting the water. I don't see how, since no one has
had problems with their water locally. There have been cattle and horses
in that pasture for years, way before we ever got it to put ours on.

They plan to start their work mid-August. Is there anything else we can
do to fight this?

I gather from your writing that you don't actually own this 20 acre
pasture, but by some agreement you have access. And even if you do
own it if that land is designated as "Wetlands" (which is likely)
there is nothing you can do... I'm surprised the state is permitting
anyone to keep livestock there, perhaps they haven't inspected
recently and/or the local inspector turns a blind eye. If that
acreage is indeed wetlands I were you I'd not make a ruckus, I'd
quietly (and quickly) find somewhere else to keep my animals lest you
get hit with some stiff penalties and the clean up costs, which can be
staggering. And if you're using someone's land by verbal agreement
you can bet the owner will never admit to even knowing you. Among
other issues (erosion, etc.) wetlands are designated as such because
of how they affect other bodies of water and especially water tables,
most especially with coliform from livestock.

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"rachael simpson" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:



Missing information:

sorry....
1) Where is "here"?

sampson county, roseboro town planning/ag zone, nc

2) Your stream is a "run off"? You mean, it runs INTO the river? Yes, or
no?

no, doesn't run into, it branches off the river, excess from the river
runs into the ditch, it runs thru the pasture, and dead-ends on the other
end of the pasture, about 4 acres outside of the pasture.

3) What water does the town claim is being polluted? The river? Drinking
water? Does the town get its drinking water from the river?

I have no clue, can't them to elaborate as to what is *polluted*. Have
requested to see the report myself, but to no avail...

4) If the town does NOT get its water supply from the river, where DOES
the supply come from?

Town water comes from some tributaries of the cape fear river. The cape
fear and south rivers eventually meet, but that is counties away. So i
don't think that our water would have much to do with it. I don't know,
maybe I am thinking too small frame...


OK. Step #1 is to call this governmental office:
http://www.enr.state.nc.us/

You need to find out if it's true that you "don't have the right to see the
environmental impact report". If you speak to someone who sounds unsure of
themselves, ask for their supervisor. If you continue having problems, tell
them your next phone call will be to the news departments of local TV
stations.

Step #2 is to drive around and see who, if anyone, lives where the stream
dead-ends. If nobody lives there, and maybe has a well for drinking water,
then something stinks really bad here.

Or your representatives in the state legislature. As Joe says, always
ask for the supervisor. If it gets to the supervisor, everybody knows
that the flunky didn't do their job. Bye-bye flunkie.
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

Sheldon wrote:


I gather from your writing that you don't actually own this 20 acre
pasture, but by some agreement you have access. And even if you do
own it if that land is designated as "Wetlands" (which is likely)
there is nothing you can do... I'm surprised the state is permitting
anyone to keep livestock there, perhaps they haven't inspected
recently and/or the local inspector turns a blind eye. If that
acreage is indeed wetlands I were you I'd not make a ruckus, I'd
quietly (and quickly) find somewhere else to keep my animals lest you
get hit with some stiff penalties and the clean up costs, which can be
staggering. And if you're using someone's land by verbal agreement
you can bet the owner will never admit to even knowing you. Among
other issues (erosion, etc.) wetlands are designated as such because
of how they affect other bodies of water and especially water tables,
most especially with coliform from livestock.



To start with, we had a legal contract to the land. Laywers took care of
this. It was a rental contract to begin with. The owner decided after 5
years of constant payment, we did not have to pay anymore to continue
using it. Had another document drawn-up, stating that we had paid in
full, and the land was legally ours, with the exception that he & his
wife have lifetime rights. We will own the area his house is own then,
also. For now, we help him keep his yard and garden up. We hold the deed
to the whole area of 32 acres.

No, it is not wetland area. Not according to the county maps and land
office anyway. I have had that checked.

Cattle have been on that exact spot for generations. It has been a
pasture for at least 80 years. The man we got it from, his family had
that place before him. He is 84 and says that when he was a child, his
grand-father and father had cattle there.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

OK. Step #1 is to call this governmental office:
http://www.enr.state.nc.us/

ok, will do.

You need to find out if it's true that you "don't have the right to see the
environmental impact report". If you speak to someone who sounds unsure of
themselves, ask for their supervisor. If you continue having problems, tell
them your next phone call will be to the news departments of local TV
stations.

calling local news is an option i have been considering.


Step #2 is to drive around and see who, if anyone, lives where the stream
dead-ends. If nobody lives there, and maybe has a well for drinking water,
then something stinks really bad here.

There are a few area houses, but they are all on town water now.

forgot to mention, don't know if it makes a difference or not, there is
a right-a-way in place, due to electric company lines skirting the
pasture on one side.

the town has been doing a "revitalization" in that general area. We
suspect that they are trying to drive us out, because of the land being
right outside of the current town limits. Also another factor is that
my uncle and his wife are the town manager and chief administrator,
respectively, and they are upset that pops left those few cows to us,
instead of all to them & theirs. So we have had no help on the local
government level.

"rachael simpson" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

OK. Step #1 is to call this governmental office:
http://www.enr.state.nc.us/

ok, will do.

You need to find out if it's true that you "don't have the right to see
the environmental impact report". If you speak to someone who sounds
unsure of themselves, ask for their supervisor. If you continue having
problems, tell them your next phone call will be to the news departments
of local TV stations.

calling local news is an option i have been considering.


Step #2 is to drive around and see who, if anyone, lives where the stream
dead-ends. If nobody lives there, and maybe has a well for drinking
water, then something stinks really bad here.

There are a few area houses, but they are all on town water now.

forgot to mention, don't know if it makes a difference or not, there is a
right-a-way in place, due to electric company lines skirting the pasture
on one side.

the town has been doing a "revitalization" in that general area. We
suspect that they are trying to drive us out, because of the land being
right outside of the current town limits. Also another factor is that my
uncle and his wife are the town manager and chief administrator,
respectively, and they are upset that pops left those few cows to us,
instead of all to them & theirs. So we have had no help on the local
government level.


Bells ringing. We may have an answer here. Which developer is cozy with your
uncle and his wife, and wants you out?

In article ,
rachael simpson wrote:

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

OK. Step #1 is to call this governmental office:
http://www.enr.state.nc.us/

ok, will do.

You need to find out if it's true that you "don't have the right to see the
environmental impact report". If you speak to someone who sounds unsure of
themselves, ask for their supervisor. If you continue having problems, tell
them your next phone call will be to the news departments of local TV
stations.

calling local news is an option i have been considering.


Step #2 is to drive around and see who, if anyone, lives where the stream
dead-ends. If nobody lives there, and maybe has a well for drinking water,
then something stinks really bad here.

There are a few area houses, but they are all on town water now.

forgot to mention, don't know if it makes a difference or not, there is
a right-a-way in place, due to electric company lines skirting the
pasture on one side.

the town has been doing a "revitalization" in that general area. We
suspect that they are trying to drive us out, because of the land being
right outside of the current town limits. Also another factor is that
my uncle and his wife are the town manager and chief administrator,
respectively, and they are upset that pops left those few cows to us,
instead of all to them & theirs. So we have had no help on the local
government level.

Take it to the county level, then to the state level, and if need be to
your Representative and Senators. Google "eminent domain", think you'll
find groups who are tryin' to make a stink about this. Point is,
hopefully, if you make a big enough stink, they'll find another way of
doing, what ever it is that they want to do, with a little more privacy.
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
*snip*

the town has been doing a "revitalization" in that general area. We
suspect that they are trying to drive us out, because of the land being
right outside of the current town limits. Also another factor is that my
uncle and his wife are the town manager and chief administrator,
respectively, and they are upset that pops left those few cows to us,
instead of all to them & theirs. So we have had no help on the local
government level.


Bells ringing. We may have an answer here. Which developer is cozy with your
uncle and his wife, and wants you out?

Which one isn't? Will have to check it out. There are a few different
contractors working in the general area. They are trying to *build up*
the town. On the next ballot is to allow liquor by the drink to attract
more restaurants, and on the agenda at the town meetings for the last
few and the next few up-coming months, is how to get the down-town
churches to *move* from down-town. Even one church that has been there
since before the town was a *town*. They think that if the churches move
out, then businesses will be more attracted to the area, and more
revenue will come in from the downtown. They want to make roseboro
compete with likes of wilmington, raleigh, and fayetteville.

Billy Rose wrote:

Take it to the county level, then to the state level, and if need be to
your Representative and Senators. Google "eminent domain", think you'll
find groups who are tryin' to make a stink about this. Point is,
hopefully, if you make a big enough stink, they'll find another way of
doing, what ever it is that they want to do, with a little more privacy.

ok, thanks. Been thinking on the eminent domain.....this whole thing
makes me think of what happened to the farms when the railroads first
came thru. i believe that i am starting to know how the smaller farmers
felt then.

"rachael simpson" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
*snip*

the town has been doing a "revitalization" in that general area. We
suspect that they are trying to drive us out, because of the land being
right outside of the current town limits. Also another factor is that
my uncle and his wife are the town manager and chief administrator,
respectively, and they are upset that pops left those few cows to us,
instead of all to them & theirs. So we have had no help on the local
government level.


Bells ringing. We may have an answer here. Which developer is cozy with
your uncle and his wife, and wants you out?

Which one isn't? Will have to check it out. There are a few different
contractors working in the general area. They are trying to *build up* the
town. On the next ballot is to allow liquor by the drink to attract more
restaurants, and on the agenda at the town meetings for the last few and
the next few up-coming months, is how to get the down-town churches to
*move* from down-town. Even one church that has been there since before
the town was a *town*. They think that if the churches move out, then
businesses will be more attracted to the area, and more revenue will come
in from the downtown. They want to make roseboro compete with likes of
wilmington, raleigh, and fayetteville.


You would be wise to find yourself a good lawyer who's not in bed with any
of your locals, even if it means he/she is very far away.

And, are you afraid to pick up the phone and call your state legislators,
attorney general's office, etc? Your original message was posed at 8:37 this
morning, and you haven't mentioned talking to anyone with any power. How
about the environmental agency? What did they say about "you don't have the
right to see the environmental impact statement"?

Oh..you haven't called them yet? Why not?

"rachael simpson" wrote in message
...
Billy Rose wrote:

Take it to the county level, then to the state level, and if need be to
your Representative and Senators. Google "eminent domain", think you'll
find groups who are tryin' to make a stink about this. Point is,
hopefully, if you make a big enough stink, they'll find another way of
doing, what ever it is that they want to do, with a little more privacy.

ok, thanks. Been thinking on the eminent domain.....this whole thing
makes me think of what happened to the farms when the railroads first came
thru. i believe that i am starting to know how the smaller farmers felt
then.


There are only two reasons why politicians do things like this: They are
either stupid (not so likely), or they are going to benefit financially from
something happening. I won't explain partnerships to you, but it's likely
that some of your local slobs are involved in real estate development.

Get a lawyer. Now.

On Jul 23, 4:14 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

You would be wise to find yourself a good lawyer who's not in bed with any
of your locals, even if it means he/she is very far away.

And, are you afraid to pick up the phone and call your state legislators,
attorney general's office, etc? Your original message was posed at 8:37 this
morning, and you haven't mentioned talking to anyone with any power. How
about the environmental agency? What did they say about "you don't have the
right to see the environmental impact statement"?

Oh..you haven't called them yet? Why not?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

for one, i wanted to be armed with the right info, before i called,
make sure i could know a little more before i call, so i can at least
sound like i know what all our rights are when i talk to the higher
powers that be. for two, had to take kids to clinic today. checkups
and shots. for three, baby didn't take well with shots, no one will
hear me too well on the phone right now. for four...it takes and hour
(if good traffic) to get to the clinic and then wait about 2 hours,
and an hour back. throw in a trip to grocery store for milk and
diapers...posted first 2 messages before i left for appt. posted next
messages when i got back and had a chance.

don't worry, i will be calling tomorrow, and will post back on what i
have been told.
have also emailed a circuit court judge who is a good friend of mine,
and am waiting to hear his reply on who i should talk to. asked you
guys, cause i think there are some very knowledgeable folk about here,
and you might know some things that i should ask or request on the
government level. so far that has proven true. I would never have
known to ask about an environmental impact report otherwise. Also,
wasn't sure exactly what offices to talk to, etc. I'm more into to
medical than politics. You have given me good info, and i will put it
to use tomorrow.