wrote in message
m...

Damn. Then some kind of curse is all it can be. Have you really ****ed
somebody off? :-)

I am thinking it must be witchcraft.

Paul

Jeff Thies wrote:
Pat Kiewicz wrote:
Paul M. Cook said:

So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer and
I sprayed the leaves with calcium water. And BER set in anyway. No
water stress such as dry roots. I water every day as it is
quite warm and the pots dry fast. This is maddening because I lost
so many tomatoes last year to BER. Just how much more can one do?


Use *much* larger pots.

I have a friend growing tomatoes in 10" to 12" pots. I know the tomato
has a huge root system and I usually see them in 5 gallon paint
buckets. Is she on a fools errand?


Smaller pots mean smaller root systems and smaller yields. Also smaller
pots dry out more quickly and so contribute to BER by varying moisture
content. Your results will be compromised depending on your soil and the
susceptibility of your cultivar to BER. For those who simply don't have
room for a proper garden or big tubs this may be the best result possible.


If you have a layer of gravel at the bottom of the pots "for
drainage" stop doing that.

Why is that?


It reduces the amount of useful soil for no gain, if the soil is free
draining then gravel will not make any difference.

Shade the pots by setting them in a wooden box (no bottom needed)
or, use large foam or double-walled pots.

Set up a drip irrigation system so the pots stay evenly moist.

Some varieties are more prone to BER than others. Sadly, this is not
something that is discussed in catalog descriptions and it's rarely
brought up anywhere else. That's too bad, really. It would be
useful information.
I've hear that some packages have BER on them to signify resistance.

'Green Zebra' is a variety that has proven to be consistantly prone
to BER in my garden. Liked the tomato, but stopped growing it because
of this fault. It would suffer BER when no other variety did.

Long, pointed varieties (plum tomatoes, for example) are prone to
BER. 'Early Girl' may be very popular but (in my experience) it is
slightly more prone to BER than other small, round, quick maturing
varieties.

Found this uber technical bit on BER:

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/4/571

Any comments on eggshells? I've got a lot ground up in my soil. It
would seem the calcium release would be slow, probably too slow.

Jeff

Eggshells are calcium carbonate which is only slightly soluble in water.
Eggshells, marble chips and solid limestone will dissolve much more slowly
than finely divided calcium carbonate such as garden lime.


David

On Jun 18, 6:48*pm, "Paul M. Cook" wrote:
So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer and I
sprayed the leaves with calcium water. *And BER set in anyway. *No water
stress such as dry roots. *I water every day as it is quite warm and the
pots dry fast. *This is maddening because I lost so many tomatoes last year
to BER. *Just how much more can one do?

Newsgroups are a great way to dicuss topics. In this case, the topic
is BER

"Paul M. Cook" wrote in message

I water daily because the plants suck up all the water during the day.
They are not overwatered. I water just until I see a little seapage from
the bottom of the pots. Big plants, warm and breezy days mean a lot of
transpiration.

You are using pots and you admit that these dry out daily. Either take on
board the message the BER comes as a result of inconsistent watering, which
is what you are doing by using pots, or start planting your toms in the
ground where they might have a fighting chance to avoid BER.

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Paul M. Cook wrote:
"Bill who putters" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Paul M. Cook" wrote:


How about just sticking some calcium tablets into the soil? I
don't need 25
pounds of lime just for my few pots.

Paul

Well I'd guess that the calcium tablets about 6 oz. might cost
close to 25 lb. of dolomite and the lime won't go bad.
Growing with containers looks like small mistakes in the garden are
focused or easier to make. I try to get stuff out of pots and into
the ground then back into a pot if it is a houseplant late fall.


Hmmm ... how much dolomite should I add to a 22 inch pot with 2 cubic
feet of soil? Or does it matter? I mean the plant will take it up
as needed. Can you overdose?

Paul


You can overdose because dolomite will raise the pH, so it would be good to
know the pH before you start. For tomatoes you are looking for pH about 6
to 6.5 IIRC. I would try about half a cup. It isn't very soluble so it
will take a while to work.

David

Warning!!! - Dolomite can be very nasty stuff to handle. Use a
respirator mask! Not some simple dust mask! Dolomite can burn your soil
(and your lungs) if too much is applied. I suggest a non burning form of
agricultural lime. There are some forms of lime that are pelletized and
much much safer (mask may OR may not be needed) and easier to use.

However, I have never heard of anyone using dolomite for pots.
Like the person stated above, just use some calcium tables.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article ,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Paul M. Cook wrote:
"Bill who putters" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Paul M. Cook" wrote:


How about just sticking some calcium tablets into the soil? I
don't need 25
pounds of lime just for my few pots.

Paul

Well I'd guess that the calcium tablets about 6 oz. might cost
close to 25 lb. of dolomite and the lime won't go bad.
Growing with containers looks like small mistakes in the garden are
focused or easier to make. I try to get stuff out of pots and into
the ground then back into a pot if it is a houseplant late fall.


Hmmm ... how much dolomite should I add to a 22 inch pot with 2 cubic
feet of soil? Or does it matter? I mean the plant will take it up
as needed. Can you overdose?

Paul


You can overdose because dolomite will raise the pH, so it would be good to
know the pH before you start. For tomatoes you are looking for pH about 6
to 6.5 IIRC. I would try about half a cup. It isn't very soluble so it
will take a while to work.

David

Warning!!! - Dolomite can be very nasty stuff to handle. Use a
respirator mask! Not some simple dust mask! Dolomite can burn your soil
(and your lungs) if too much is applied. I suggest a non burning form of
agricultural lime. There are some forms of lime that are pelletized and
much much safer (mask may OR may not be needed) and easier to use.

However, I have never heard of anyone using dolomite for pots.
Like the person stated above, just use some calcium tables.

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9923883

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
What use one more wake up call?
http://ocg6.marine.usf.edu/~liu/Drif...atest_roms.htm

Dan L. wrote:
In article ,

Warning!!! - Dolomite can be very nasty stuff to handle. Use a
respirator mask! Not some simple dust mask! Dolomite can burn your
soil (and your lungs) if too much is applied.

I don't know where you get that information from, but I've used
dolomite limestone (ground up marble) since I was on the farm 65 years
ago. We got it by the dump truck load and used broadcast spreaders to
put it on the fields and nobody every had mask or gloves. Since
moving to smaller property some 40 years ago, I've been buying it by
the 100, then 50 & now 40 pound bag because that's the way it was/is
sold. What I get in the bags is pelletized, but what we got by the
truck load was not.

However, I have never heard of anyone using dolomite for pots.
Like the person stated above, just use some calcium tables.

I agree, I have never tried to grow anything but flowers in pots!! My
regular tomato vines are caged 6 foot high & the grape tomatoes are
hanging over a 6 foot high wall. They wouldn't last an hour in a pot.

Tom J

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:10:35 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"Paul M. Cook" wrote in message

I water daily because the plants suck up all the water during the day.
They are not overwatered. I water just until I see a little seapage from
the bottom of the pots. Big plants, warm and breezy days mean a lot of
transpiration.

You are using pots and you admit that these dry out daily. Either take on
board the message the BER comes as a result of inconsistent watering, which
is what you are doing by using pots, or start planting your toms in the
ground where they might have a fighting chance to avoid BER.



I have grown tomatoes (all sorts, hybrids, heirlooms, full size and
cherries) in pots for over 20 years. The seasons and my watering
habits and capabilities/attentions have varied greatly over that time,
and I have had seasons of great bounty and seasons of minimal harvest
due to yield or predation of various sorts.

Nevertheless, I have never, ever had BER, so don't go thinking it is
inevitable for pots or variable watering. T'aint so.

And yes, I have tomatoes growing in the ground, too, so it isn't too
difficult to draw comparisons. I never had BER there, either.

I have many thing successfully growing in pots this year:

tomatoes
cukes
peas
beans
broccoli
radishes
lettuces
bok choi
scallions
chives
grapes
shallots
musk melons
yellow squash
blackberries
broccoli rabe
12-15 herbs
lots more, too...I'll remember later on.

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"Paul M. Cook" wrote in message

I water daily because the plants suck up all the water during the day.
They are not overwatered. I water just until I see a little seapage from
the bottom of the pots. Big plants, warm and breezy days mean a lot of
transpiration.

You are using pots and you admit that these dry out daily. Either take on
board the message the BER comes as a result of inconsistent watering,
which is what you are doing by using pots, or start planting your toms in
the ground where they might have a fighting chance to avoid BER.


I guess I am finding it hard to believe that these plants require such a
delicate balance to thrive, or even do reasonably well.

Paul

In article ,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Paul M. Cook wrote:
"Bill who putters" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Paul M. Cook" wrote:


How about just sticking some calcium tablets into the soil? I
don't need 25
pounds of lime just for my few pots.

Paul

Well I'd guess that the calcium tablets about 6 oz. might cost
close to 25 lb. of dolomite and the lime won't go bad.
Growing with containers looks like small mistakes in the garden are
focused or easier to make. I try to get stuff out of pots and into
the ground then back into a pot if it is a houseplant late fall.


Hmmm ... how much dolomite should I add to a 22 inch pot with 2 cubic
feet of soil? Or does it matter? I mean the plant will take it up
as needed. Can you overdose?

Paul


You can overdose because dolomite will raise the pH, so it would be good to
know the pH before you start. For tomatoes you are looking for pH about 6
to 6.5 IIRC. I would try about half a cup. It isn't very soluble so it
will take a while to work.

David

Warning!!! - Dolomite can be very nasty stuff to handle. Use a
respirator mask! Not some simple dust mask! Dolomite can burn your soil
(and your lungs) if too much is applied. I suggest a non burning form of
agricultural lime. There are some forms of lime that are pelletized and
much much safer (mask may OR may not be needed) and easier to use.

MSDS Dolomite

https://sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9923883


Section 11: Toxicological Information
Routes of Entry: Inhalation. Ingestion.
Toxicity to Animals:
LD50: Not available. LC50: Not available.
Chronic Effects on Humans: Not available.
Other Toxic Effects on Humans: Slightly hazardous in case of skin
contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation.
Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals: Not available.
Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans: Not available.
Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Acute Potential Health Effects: Skin: May cause skin irritation. Eyes:
Dust can cause eye irritation. Inhalation: This material is
a dust or may produce dust. It may cause respiratory tract irritation.
Breathing in small amounts of this material during normal
industrial handling is not likely to cause harmful effects. Breathing in
large amounts may be harmful. Ingestion: May cause
digestive tract irritation. Swallowing small amounts during normal
industrial handling is not likely to cause harmful effects.
Swallowing large amounts may be harmful. Symptoms of exposure to this
material through inhalation or ingestion may include:
mouth and throat irritation, scratchy feeling, and coughing.

However, I have never heard of anyone using dolomite for pots.
Like the person stated above, just use some calcium tables.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/...441932013.html
For the 5:1:1 mix only:
1 level tbsp of dolomitic (garden) lime per gallon of soil
or
1/2 cup per cubic foot.
Don't worry about gypsum or Epsom salts unless you decide to try the
gritty mix.

More than I'll ever want to know about container gardening:
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0212444023053.html
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://radwisdom.com/essays/this-is-your-brain/

In article ,
"Paul M. Cook" wrote:

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"Paul M. Cook" wrote in message

I water daily because the plants suck up all the water during the day.
They are not overwatered. I water just until I see a little seapage from
the bottom of the pots. Big plants, warm and breezy days mean a lot of
transpiration.

You are using pots and you admit that these dry out daily. Either take on
board the message the BER comes as a result of inconsistent watering,
which is what you are doing by using pots, or start planting your toms in
the ground where they might have a fighting chance to avoid BER.


I guess I am finding it hard to believe that these plants require such a
delicate balance to thrive, or even do reasonably well.

Paul

Then again, the BER just might clear up on it's own.

At one point, IIRC, you said you had 6" or so of bark mulch in your
pots. If this is true for the tomatoes, you may want to pull it out and
replace all but the top inch with soil, which would increase the amount
of water you have available.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://radwisdom.com/essays/this-is-your-brain/

Boron Elgar wrote:

I have grown tomatoes (all sorts, hybrids, heirlooms, full size and
cherries) in pots for over 20 years. The seasons and my watering
habits and capabilities/attentions have varied greatly over that
time,
and I have had seasons of great bounty and seasons of minimal
harvest
due to yield or predation of various sorts.

Nevertheless, I have never, ever had BER, so don't go thinking it is
inevitable for pots or variable watering. T'aint so.

And yes, I have tomatoes growing in the ground, too, so it isn't too
difficult to draw comparisons. I never had BER there, either.

You seem to have a very neutral soil in your area. Lucky you!! My
base soil is very acid red clay, so it takes a lot of amending &
regular soil test to keep mine neutral.

Tom J

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Paul M. Cook" wrote:

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"Paul M. Cook" wrote in message

I water daily because the plants suck up all the water during the day.
They are not overwatered. I water just until I see a little seapage
from
the bottom of the pots. Big plants, warm and breezy days mean a lot
of
transpiration.

You are using pots and you admit that these dry out daily. Either take
on
board the message the BER comes as a result of inconsistent watering,
which is what you are doing by using pots, or start planting your toms
in
the ground where they might have a fighting chance to avoid BER.


I guess I am finding it hard to believe that these plants require such a
delicate balance to thrive, or even do reasonably well.

Paul

Then again, the BER just might clear up on it's own.

At one point, IIRC, you said you had 6" or so of bark mulch in your
pots. If this is true for the tomatoes, you may want to pull it out and
replace all but the top inch with soil, which would increase the amount
of water you have available.


Last year I tried the bark mulch. Not this year, just straight Sta-Green.

Paul

In article ,
"Paul M. Cook" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Paul M. Cook" wrote:

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"Paul M. Cook" wrote in message

I water daily because the plants suck up all the water during the day.
They are not overwatered. I water just until I see a little seapage
from
the bottom of the pots. Big plants, warm and breezy days mean a lot
of
transpiration.

You are using pots and you admit that these dry out daily. Either take
on
board the message the BER comes as a result of inconsistent watering,
which is what you are doing by using pots, or start planting your toms
in
the ground where they might have a fighting chance to avoid BER.


I guess I am finding it hard to believe that these plants require such a
delicate balance to thrive, or even do reasonably well.

Paul

Then again, the BER just might clear up on it's own.

At one point, IIRC, you said you had 6" or so of bark mulch in your
pots. If this is true for the tomatoes, you may want to pull it out and
replace all but the top inch with soil, which would increase the amount
of water you have available.


Last year I tried the bark mulch. Not this year, just straight Sta-Green.

Paul

These may be helpful now, or in the future.

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-8105.html

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/...3324323.html?8
7
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://radwisdom.com/essays/this-is-your-brain/

Dan L. wrote:

Hmmm ... how much dolomite should I add to a 22 inch pot with 2
cubic feet of soil? Or does it matter? I mean the plant will take
it up as needed. Can you overdose?

Paul


You can overdose because dolomite will raise the pH, so it would be
good to know the pH before you start. For tomatoes you are looking
for pH about 6 to 6.5 IIRC. I would try about half a cup. It isn't
very soluble so it will take a while to work.

David

Warning!!! - Dolomite can be very nasty stuff to handle. Use a
respirator mask! Not some simple dust mask! Dolomite can burn your
soil (and your lungs) if too much is applied. I suggest a non burning
form of agricultural lime. There are some forms of lime that are
pelletized and much much safer (mask may OR may not be needed) and
easier to use.


I had always considered dolomite to be one iof the fairly benign
agricultural minerals and the possibility of it doing personal harm is new
to me.

Dolomite is calcium magnesium carbonate. It is slightly soluble and mildly
alkaline in water, very much like agricultural lime. It is often used in
place of lime to raise pH and/or to add magnesium if the soil is deficient.
It can contain impurities of heavy metals but so can gypsum and other
agricultural minerals, the risk with these is cumulative build-up rather
than immediate damage.

What do you mean by "it can burn your lungs"? What damage would it do?

What do you mean by "burn your soil"? What would happen? How is it
different to "non burning agricultural lime" (which is calcium carbonate)
other than the presence of magnesium as well as calcium? How does the
magnesium make it dangerous?

If you are not in a position to supply details yourself please give a
reference to this information.

David