"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doug Kanter wrote:


She didn't say "Christians". She said "the religious right".

Right. All Christian Republicans. Sorry,
the "good ******/bad ******" distinction
didn't work 50 years ago, either. Bigots are
bigots, whether they make bigoted statements
about race or religion.

That's why Graham, Robertson and Falwell were identified as bigots!

boxer

In article , (Bill
Oliver) wrote:

In article ,
paghat wrote:

The one & only place outside of a church where you're GUARANTEED to have
100% Christians is a Ku Klux Klan meeting.

Well, no. And the primary force combatting the KKK was Christian.
Antichristian bigots like to forget that Martin Luther King was
*Rev.* Martin Luther King.

billo

And bad people who try to coopt the ghosts of good people to their causes
hate to note that Martin could & did work well with Jews, agnostics, & all
kinds of people, & was poiitically inspired by a Hindu. Everyone from the
suffragists in Texas to the negro militia of Georgia fought the KKK, but
these few-in-number activists bucked a system in which "good" christians
in general did nothing, & the KKK relied on that to thrive. It's why for
over 100 years it was not possible for southern courts to find a white man
guilty of killing a black person.

It remains purely & simply a fact that the one place outside a church
you're GUARANTEED to have 100% christians is a Ku Klux Klan rally. You can
boast that the black guy they hung that day got nabbed leaving his Baptist
church, but that rather evades the point to the highest degree of malice.
I'm left waiting for a classier example of where exclusively Christians
turn up.

Whatever some good Quakers might be doing that's way nicer than that
doesn't change the above reality one whit. And even when looking at a
decent Christian movement like the Quakers, that doesn't seem ever to make
its way into political office. Our last Quaker president was first &
foremost a crook in office, who built his career on a foundation of
killing a couple Jews cuz they were commies, so that he, Nixon, made his
good pal & closet-fag Joe McCarthy seem cuddly by comparison.

Separation of church & state is a good idea. Too bad our present stinko
president doesn't think so.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in message
...
The message
from "Doug Kanter" contains these words:

"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in
message
...

My conclusion: Your civilization is quite advanced. You
also gave the world Monty Python.

We've advanced civilisation a whole lot more since then..wait till
you
see Big Brother :-(

Yes. I've heard. You people need to get your guns back before it's too
late.

You people shoot televisions? We just push the off button.

Janet




Hmm. When you said Big Brother, I thought you were referring to your
interesting government, and suggesting it was further along the dictatorial
spectrum than ours. You're talking about a TV show?

"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article , "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

But....I know Christians who don't meddle in other peoples' business.
Maybe
THAT is the distinction, not the names we use for various groups. If a
name
is necessary, perhaps something like Obsessive Obnoxious Missionaries
would
do. When we hear the word "missionary", we think of religious zealots
raping
cultures in third world countries. However, they try and do it here,
too.
They can't see that some people get along just fine without them, thank
you.

The one & only place outside of a church where you're GUARANTEED to have
100% Christians is a Ku Klux Klan meeting. That's something Christians
should always bare in mind when noting that SOME christians aren't such
racist mofo gits, as it's just one reason that mistrust of
christianity-motivated politicking is not to be trusted as even marginally
decent.

As for missionary types. Had a couple mormons on my front porch two weeks
ago who refused to leave. I was being polite in asking them to leave, &
they took the polite tone or the refusal to just slam the door as an
invitation to stay & keep jabbering at me in the most offensively
religious terms -- & I note this as someone who collects religious texts
of all faiths & know a great deal about most of these ideologies.

If these had been homeless chaps instead of mormons, being as aggressive
asking for spare change as these guys were pitching religion, they could
actually be arrested. They kept trying to get me to engage them in some
kind of religious debate, & the more I refused the more they insisted. Not
until I narrowed my eyes & alluded to them as "trespassing mother****ing
gits" did they finally catch my meaning & go away.

A week later, another pair of Mormons peered in at my open door & called
for my attention. I refused to go to the door, but called back at them
from the kitchen to put this address on their "don't bother the
godforsaken Jews' house" list. One of the chaps actually said, "Okay," &
they left.

-paghat the ratgirl

They usually approach me when I'm in the garden with my hands full. The last
time I recall, they kept trying to shove pamphlets into my hand. I pointed
to the trash can and said "Save me a trip, OK?" They kept talking and
insisting that I take pamphlets. Finally, I said "Those are made of paper.
Paper comes from trees. My god says that if you waste trees, you'll burn in
hell." They left.

"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article , (Bill
Oliver) wrote:

In article ,
paghat wrote:

The one & only place outside of a church where you're GUARANTEED to
have
100% Christians is a Ku Klux Klan meeting.

Well, no. And the primary force combatting the KKK was Christian.
Antichristian bigots like to forget that Martin Luther King was
*Rev.* Martin Luther King.

billo

And bad people who try to coopt the ghosts of good people to their causes
hate to note that Martin could & did work well with Jews, agnostics, & all
kinds of people, & was poiitically inspired by a Hindu. Everyone from the
suffragists in Texas to the negro militia of Georgia fought the KKK, but
these few-in-number activists bucked a system in which "good" christians
in general did nothing, & the KKK relied on that to thrive. It's why for
over 100 years it was not possible for southern courts to find a white man
guilty of killing a black person.

It remains purely & simply a fact that the one place outside a church
you're GUARANTEED to have 100% christians is a Ku Klux Klan rally. You can
boast that the black guy they hung that day got nabbed leaving his Baptist
church, but that rather evades the point to the highest degree of malice.
I'm left waiting for a classier example of where exclusively Christians
turn up.

Whatever some good Quakers might be doing that's way nicer than that
doesn't change the above reality one whit. And even when looking at a
decent Christian movement like the Quakers, that doesn't seem ever to make
its way into political office. Our last Quaker president was first &
foremost a crook in office, who built his career on a foundation of
killing a couple Jews cuz they were commies, so that he, Nixon, made his
good pal & closet-fag Joe McCarthy seem cuddly by comparison.

Separation of church & state is a good idea. Too bad our present stinko
president doesn't think so.

-paghat the ratgirl

I really need to buy you a beer somehow. :-)

"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article , Sheila
wrote:

You just keep changing the subject!

What's up with so many RED cars in those autombile ads?

Easy there. You're confusing Sheila.

"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article , "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

As for missionary types. Had a couple mormons on my front porch two weeks
ago who refused to leave.

I put my largest, most intimidating dog on the porch when I see the Mormons
and Jehovah's Witnesses in the neighborhood. That always discourages them.

"Sheila" wrote in message
...


I don't accept the government paying for abortions on demand.


I don't accept the government paying for superstition and bull shit like
"Creationism" being taught in public schools.

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article ,
paghat wrote:

The one & only place outside of a church where you're GUARANTEED to have
100% Christians is a Ku Klux Klan meeting.

Well, no. And the primary force combatting the KKK was Christian.
Antichristian bigots like to forget that Martin Luther King was
*Rev.* Martin Luther King.


No. You just illustrated that the religion and the "religious right" are
two different entities.

"Sheila" wrote in message
...


Doug Kanter wrote:

"Sheila" wrote in message
...

You haven't answered the question, 'Why should the government pay
for
it?'

For the same reason the government pays for other medical
procedures,
like
hip replacements, or medication for childrens' ear infections.
However,
I'll
add this: The same government should also pay for health education
which
would help minimize some health disorders, and said education should
be
completely factual & not influenced by church committees.

So you believe in taking from one group to give to another, even to
the
point of taking innocent lives.

Two separate issues. "taking from one group...." refers to who should
pay
for ALL medical procedures, including setting broken bones, eye exams
and
abortions. Because of the economic structure of this country, there will
ALWAYS be people who cannot afford health insurance, so you'd better get
used to the idea unless you have a better solution. What do you suppose
a
hotel room would cost if the maids were paid $35,000.00 per year? How
about
the lower paid kitchen staff in restaurants? Are you ready for an $11.00
hamburger at your typical diner? How about a 3 lb bag of carrots for
$8.00?
As long as menial work needs to be done, the government will have to pay
for
health insurance for millions of people.

There are not as many uninsured people as you believe.

Really? How many do YOU think there are? A ballpark guess will suffice. And,
what's the difference anyway? If there are 1000 in this entire country, they
deserve to receive assistance, especially if they're working their tails off
like the rest of us and still unable to make ends meet.



"Taking innocent lives" is not connected with the financial issue. You
either accept government supported health care IN GENERAL, or you don't.

I don't accept the government paying for abortions on demand.

I don't accept the government paying for injuries incurred when morons don't
wear eye protection while using power tools. But, I accept it because it's
not the government's place to judge how people ended up the way they are.


My ex-wife's Unitarian church ran a series of sex ed classes which
were
very
explicit. They honored parents' wishes through a real high tech
scheme
which
involved typing and printing things on paper - quite revolutionary.
All
parents were given VERY detailed copies of each week's lesson plan
so
they
could keep their kids out of certain classes if they wished to do
so.
Why
couldn't public schools do this, rather than have the typical
all-or-nothing
wars which seem to be the hobby of the fundamentalists?


Well, when I grew up, parents taught their children about sex. I
think
that is where it should be taught today too. Let schools teach real
subjects.

SOME parents teach their kids about sex. Of that group, some are idiots
and
teach their kids things which are simply incorrect. Not the morals, but
the
scientific facts. That's how you end up with unwanted pregnancies. You
can't
scream about abortion *and* try to stamp out information which will help
lower the abortion rate. Sorry. It's immature to think that way.

No, it's not immature to thing that way. Sex education at school seems
to encourage sexual activity, not just educate. It makes it much harder
for girl's to so 'no' to a guy today.

OK. That last paragraph is precious. Could you please provide at least two
sources (web links, scientific journals) for that ridiculous information,
preferably sources NOT connected with any religious organization?

By the way, some say I attribute too much to linguistic skills, but your
inclusion of an apostrophe in "girl's" reveals a lot about you.

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Sheila" wrote in message
...


I don't accept the government paying for abortions on demand.


I don't accept the government paying for superstition and bull shit like
"Creationism" being taught in public schools.



Touché. Especially when the bullshit comes from a book written by HUMANS.

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:17:12 -0400, Sheila
wrote:



dykerider wrote:

"Helen Crames" wrote in message
newsgBUc.276159$%_6.32608@attbi_s01...

Isn't abortion much more expensive than birth control?

Helen

Not if the government pays for it.

Why should the government pay for it?

Sheila
Pay now or pay later, lots cheaper to abort than try to educate and
socialize an idjet

In article ,
paghat wrote:

And bad people who try to coopt the ghosts of good people to their causes
hate to note that Martin could & did work well with Jews, agnostics, & all
kinds of people, & was poiitically inspired by a Hindu.

And bigots forget that this is not uncommon in Christians.


billo

In article ,
Vox Humana wrote:


No. You just illustrated that the religion and the "religious right" are
two different entities.



No. Reducing any group to a one dimensional stereotype with statements
like "There are only two issues that concern the religious right - sex,
and sex." is bigotry. I don't expect you to comprehend that conservative
Christians are not all fundamentalists and don't all fit your bigoted
stereotype. Bigots like you will rarely face their bigotry.


billo

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Vox Humana wrote:


No. You just illustrated that the religion and the "religious right" are
two different entities.



No. Reducing any group to a one dimensional stereotype with statements
like "There are only two issues that concern the religious right - sex,
and sex." is bigotry. I don't expect you to comprehend that conservative
Christians are not all fundamentalists and don't all fit your bigoted
stereotype. Bigots like you will rarely face their bigotry.


The religious right spends the vast majority of its time address issues of
sex. Sex education, gay issues, abortion, and so on. They are
anti-feminist because of sexual issues. Sadly, they have defined themselves
as one-dimensional.