On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:15:41 CST, Derek Broughton
wrote:

Huh? You asked if water rates were really high, and I made a political
statement that I feel they should be higher. afaik, having helped write
the charter, politics isn't excluded.

And I made no reply back to that, you assumed that my comment (high horse)
was directed just at you (I even made mention of myself in a later post).

Nor climb upon a high horse else they fall off.

Talk about holier than thou.

Struck a nerve did I? ;-)

I personally, would water a tree next to my house in a drought area unless
there were restrictions against it. ~ jan

And I personally wouldn't have planted a japanese maple. I _don't_ know how
suitable a japanese maple would have been in the region that triggered my
response, but it sure isn't a native plant.

And I wasn't talking about that plant. The OP had some type of large tree
up and over his house that shaded it. That was where my question was
directed before this thread when deep south. Perhaps I omitted that part of
his reply. I don't remember, nor currently have the time to look back (I'll
do that later). ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:15:19 CST, Derek Broughton
wrote:

I know Kathy, let's all move to where Derek lives! ;-) ~ jan

I'd happily just send you some of the rain...

Oh no, we're moving up there, the whole fam damily. Kiss your utopia
good-bye. evil grin ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Memories via irrigation....
Just got our annual Boy Scout blow out the sprinklers
flyer for October. A sign that fall is here. You can hear them coming
down the street about 8am on a Saturday and the generator running.
A sign that DH has to roll out of bed, open the garage
door, make sure the dogs are in the house. Neighbors
stand around with coffee and visit while the scouts go
from house to house.
Years past I always had an elaborate Halloween display
out which would distract the younger scouts as they
checked out what was new that year. Now that mine
kiddos are off to college and a senior in high school we
don't get as carried away.
Sigh, they grow up too fast.
k :-)

On Sep 19, 9:06 am, Chris Barnes wrote:
chatnoir wrote:
It is not remote or confusing! You imply since you have 3 rivers near
you, you are not depleting the aquifer! In fact that was always the
attitude in Colorado! If they drill near the river, they get all the
water they want! In fact, they are draining the river illegally and
violating numerous river compacts! People living near rivers in
Colorado often drop pimps in the river and use it to irrigate even
though all the water in the river isallocated and they don't have any
nallovation! So, I think saying you kive near so and so rivers makes
it very relevant!

Being shrill does your cause no good. Every sentence you wrote ended
with an exclamation point (!). That tends to make you sound like a
lunatic, where people won't take you seriously.

You will notice I always do that!



Conserving water is a concern in some areas (CO is probably one of
them), but it isn't everywhere. Where I live, we get ~40" of rain per
year - what we don't use ends up in the Gulf of Mexico. I plan on
putting in a water well w/ a 55gpm pump.

Try putting in Columbia River and Salmon in search engines and you
will see there is a problem there!



Fwiw, I believe cities need to begin investing in their own desalination
plants and piping in their fresh water from the oceans. The days of
entire cities pulling water from rivers needs to come to a screeching
end. But that's a thread for another newsgroup...

Most salt comes from ag practices! Forinstance in Colorado you had to
use all your allocated water in traditional manners or lose it! So
farmers would flood their fields and leach out the salt which went
into the rivers!

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:21:28 CST, chatnoir
wrote:

Try putting in Columbia River and Salmon in search engines and you
will see there is a problem there!

Well there are lots of sides to that story, any who do you believe
complexes. I'll get real worried about salmon when it is no longer in most
every grocery store for everyone's dinner table. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

"Reel McKoi" wrote
I started with a few hardly water lilies and now I have to compost what I
can't give away. But the hardys are cheap at Wal*Mart - $4.88 for the
last ones I bought. In the spring each can be divided into several
plants. But one healthy well fed lily can cover a huge area.


Wow! That sounds great. I'm in zone 8/9 so I'm not sure if a water lily that
loves Zone 6 where you are will do well in our climate. Nonetheless, I'm
willing to give it a try. Do you know what variety yours is?

Alternatively, Is there anyone reading this who has had good luck with
inexpensive lilies in the Gulf Coast region? What kind were they?


Michael
New Orleans, Louisiana USA
================================================== ==============

"MLF" wrote in message
...

"Reel McKoi" wrote
I started with a few hardly water lilies and now I have to compost what I
can't give away. But the hardys are cheap at Wal*Mart - $4.88 for the
last ones I bought. In the spring each can be divided into several
plants. But one healthy well fed lily can cover a huge area.


Wow! That sounds great. I'm in zone 8/9 so I'm not sure if a water lily
that loves Zone 6 where you are will do well in our climate. Nonetheless,
I'm willing to give it a try. Do you know what variety yours is?

No I don't, but they tell you on the box and there's always a pic of the
color. I bought one each of each color.... from white to pale pink to red.
One was even a changeable mini. I have no complaints with Wally World's
water lilies.

Alternatively, Is there anyone reading this who has had good luck with
inexpensive lilies in the Gulf Coast region? What kind were they?

You may have to go with tropicals. I haven't seen them locally. But they
all multiply from what I understand and offer great shade to the pond. The
flowers are beautiful. Icing on the cake.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

~ jan wrote:

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:21:28 CST, chatnoir
wrote:

Try putting in Columbia River and Salmon in search engines and you
will see there is a problem there!

Well there are lots of sides to that story, any who do you believe
complexes.

I'm afraid I can't make any sense of that sentence.

I'll get real worried about salmon when it is no longer in most
every grocery store for everyone's dinner table. ~ jan

?? You'll never know if that's your criteria. Atlantic Salmon is available
everywhere, but it's all farmed. It's long past time to worry about the
health of the wild Atlantic Salmon population (even if you believe that
there is still such a thing as a wild Atlantic Salmon).
--
derek

In the UK we get restrictions put on our water consumption during
drought periods. The first thing to go is the use of hoses and
sprinklers for watering gardens, and pressure hoses (or any type of
hosepipe) for cleaning cars. When these restrictions are in force it is
not unheard of for helicopters to be sent up to check for green lawns -
those found guilty of violating restrictions get heavily fined. It is
still allowed to water a garden by hand as this is far more efficient
and the water is targetted......and we are still allowed to use
hosepipes to fill ponds and paddling/swimming pools.....

Personally I don't agree with the long term use of sprinklers to water
gardens mainly because they are wasteful and inefficient. Running them
throughout the day IMO is not as beneficial as a twice daily watering at
dawn and dusk (less issues with evaporation). I would also hesitate, as
much as I love my garden, to plant anything that would require many
hours of watering to get it to survive (possibly as I tend to forget to
do it).....far better to plant something suited to the climate or at
least something only requiring a twice daily soaking.

Now, the use of irrigation for farming is a different matter but still
has to be done with a degree of common sense.

Water is not a limitless resource and we have to consider the impact on
the environment when sourcing it. Diverting rivers or damming them can
have a massive impact on the ecosystem....potentially turning areas into
desert that had been fertile......there are many examples worldwide
where this has happened or where one country diverts a river to the
detriment of the population of another (can't remember the exact example
just that this was reported on last year some time).

Those of us lucky enough to live in the developed world tend to take our
water supply for granted - and yes, I do too, but less so after spending
a day last summer (when it was hot) without any running water being
supplied to the house (burst water pipe meaning around 1000 homes were
cut off) and the drought restrictions in force last year. I have nothing
against watering garden plants per se but I do think careful
consideration should be given to ensure that it is done in the most
efficient way.

Gill

Derek Broughton wrote:



?? You'll never know if that's your criteria. Atlantic Salmon is available
everywhere, but it's all farmed. It's long past time to worry about the
health of the wild Atlantic Salmon population (even if you believe that
there is still such a thing as a wild Atlantic Salmon).

I concur. Wild Salmon are under threat and very expensive to buy in the
shops. It is the farming of Salmon that has made the fish abundant and
affordable in the supermarkets. The diversion of rivers, pollution of
natural habitat and the escape of farm bred Salmon (as has recently
happened in the UK) all add up to significant threats to the wild
population....

Gill

The story of salmon in the PNW has decades
of material behind it. It involves the hydro-electric industry,
irrigation, sport fishermen, fish farmers and Native American rights.
It is beyond complicated...full of politics, sturm und drang
and all messed up.

In our store salmon is marked farm, wild and, only
in early summer, Copper River (from British Columbia
and the very best).
It is also marked 'color added', in some instances, which is rather
alarming.
k :-)

k wrote:

In our store salmon is marked farm, wild and, only
in early summer, Copper River (from British Columbia
and the very best).
It is also marked 'color added', in some instances, which is rather
alarming.
k :-)

Except that they found that 70% of "Wild" marked salmon were farmed.
Costco, among other's, got fined. Probably a pittance compared to the
larger profit from mismarked goods. The red color in "Wild" is from the
crustaceans they eat in the ocean, the farmed essentially eat wheat and
corn and therefore are white inside.

Chip

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:38:19 CST, Gill Passman
wrote:

do it).....far better to plant something suited to the climate or at
least something only requiring a twice daily soaking.

The problem with this is, you get a shallow root system and trees blow over
and can't survive a drought. Deep watering puts roots deeper and further
out from the tree. In a drought the tree is more apt to make it without
watering. This works for lawns also.

Take my maple (please!) griddled July 06. Started shedding a few leaves
late August of 06, pretty normal fall. With no water for 9 months, it puts
out a tons of seeds in spring 07, and leafs out. There is obviously a whole
lot of water storage in a large tree. Soil types, climate conditions, YMMV,
if one even has to deep water.

Different areas require different practices. The above is just what the
County Extension agent teaches the Master Gardeners for my area. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:21:48 CST, Derek Broughton
wrote:

Well there are lots of sides to that story, any who do you believe
complexes.

I'm afraid I can't make any sense of that sentence.

Yea, neither can I. :-/ I'd put in a long day and shouldn't have been
typing.

I think I was trying to say, there are many scientific sides to this
complex story, and the lay person is left with "who do you believe"
questioning. IMHO. Wild salmon, farm salmon, in my personal opinion, darn
close to call. By any other name, is a salmon not a salmon? ;-) ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Found this funny column from 2003
about the dying salmon.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/123199_dye23.html

I checked the salmon at Albertson's today.
Atlantic Farm Salmon at $5.99 lb.
Wild Alaska Salmon at $8.99 lb.
Next step will be to do a taste test and see
if the family can tell any difference between
them and which one they prefer.

k :-)