"Laura" wrote in message
...
Please don't think that way - that gas prices will cause a depression.

We might be in for a rough time over the next few weeks, but preliminary
indications are that the energy/gasoline problems coming from Katrina will
be temporary. The issue is not really the oil supply, but distribution,
and
to a lesser extent, refinery capacity.


Oh, stop being so rational! We all know that gas prices NEVER EVER fall to
previous price levels once a supply interruption or shortage is over. We
will see prices that were already too high at $2.65/gal go to $4.10/gal.
When everything is back online, prices will drop to $3.37/gal. and the
talking heads will rejoice and declare victory.

madgardener wrote:
AH HA@!!! I knew you weren't directing the statement towards me,
but I always enjoy learning what I don't know. by the way, I wrote
a rant (not aimed at you, either) last night in regards to
someone's response about the news "coverage" and decided not to
post it......I read it this morning, it wasn't bad, but I could
sure tell I got caught up in my emotions, again. Now if only the
ex-daughter in law would just call and sarcastically tell me "we're
alright" and hang up, I'd feel better. I don't care if they have a
house to go back to or if everything is lost as long as they're all
alright..........apparently the people who live down there have
this nonchalant attitude that "it's not as bad as you think, we'll
rebuild and everything will be fine". I got this from my son who
has talked to two of his best friends who are fine, but have
sustained tremendous damage to their homes. One is in TOTAL denial
because he manages and trouble shoots Wendy's restaurants near
Slidelle and doesn't realize that Slidelle is
GONE........................it's just not there, but he thinks
he'll be back to work "in a week"...........sigh.........thanks for
enlightening me madgardener

Your sons ex-wife will always be your daughter-in-law. He got a divorce
you didn't but that does not mean you have to like her.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8
Sunset Zone 5

Vox Humana wrote:
"BetsyB" wrote in message
...
The stores are reflecting what they are being charged for
delivery by truck, for all our food and household products. I am
thinking we might be heading into a depression. I was born
durning the last one. NJ is jacking gas prices by 50 cents in the
next couple days. We are retired and don't really need to go
anywhere we don't choose. We are fortunate in that way.



We have already started changing our habits. I don't leave home
unless I know where and why I am going. But, even if you stay home
this is going to get you. A cold winter has been predicted and all
energy prices are going to rise due to disruption in supply or
distribution along with a strong demand from developing countries
like China. Everything has an energy component in the price, both
for production and transportation. Insurance prices are likely to
rise, also. I think that we were in bad spot already with a
jobless recovery. Wages are slipping and poverty is growing. With
most people only a couple of paychecks from disaster, I think you
may be right about the depression. It's breathtaking to think that
we have gone from a surplus to a financial disaster in about 5
years.

The disaster relief is a disaster and who will get the blame, the Bush
led federal government. It will be disaster for the Republicans next
election cycle. Yippee.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8
Sunset Zone 5

someone on this thread asked why other countries weren't helping us or
offering aid. As of yesterday, the UN and 31 countries had offered aid. In
many cases, there is no one in the US "organized" enough to figure out how
to utilize the aid being offered. And of course, our brilliant man at the
UN, John Bolton, is probably too busy telling the offering countries to ****
off to figure out how to take advantage of help from them.
"madgardener" wrote in message
...
AH HA@!!! I knew you weren't directing the statement towards me, but I
always enjoy learning what I don't know. by the way, I wrote a rant (not
aimed at you, either) last night in regards to someone's response about
the news "coverage" and decided not to post it......I read it this
morning, it wasn't bad, but I could sure tell I got caught up in my
emotions, again. Now if only the ex-daughter in law would just call and
sarcastically tell me "we're alright" and hang up, I'd feel better. I
don't care if they have a house to go back to or if everything is lost as
long as they're all alright..........apparently the people who live down
there have this nonchalant attitude that "it's not as bad as you think,
we'll rebuild and everything will be fine". I got this from my son who has
talked to two of his best friends who are fine, but have sustained
tremendous damage to their homes. One is in TOTAL denial because he
manages and trouble shoots Wendy's restaurants near Slidelle and doesn't
realize that Slidelle is GONE........................it's just not there,
but he thinks he'll be back to work "in a
week"...........sigh.........thanks for enlightening me
madgardener
"Vox Humana" wrote in message
. ..

"madgardener" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
. ..
On the first day of Economics 101 you learn about the trade-off
between
"guns and butter." Someone must have skipped that class.

well Vox, I didn't have Economics 101. kindly enlighten me, I might be
52
but I'm willing to learn more. (not being sarcastic, either)
madgardener


The comment wasn't directed at you, but the person who decided that we
needed guns instead of butter. The "Guns and Butter" curve is based on
the
fact that there is limited productivity. You can produce guns OR butter.
When one product goes up, the other goes down unless you can increase
productivity. This illustrates the concept of "opportunity loss." In
other
words, when you decide to go to war, you experience an opportunity loss
to
produce (or afford) things like infrastructure and consumer goods.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/gunsandbutter.asp

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168132,00.html

My Senate nerd who I am still willing to swap, for that sweet Fairlane, sent
me these.

BetsyB
"BetsyB" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
. ..

"madgardener" wrote in message
...
Whenever there is a natural disaster, the tsunami in the Indian
Ocean
for example, the world community expects the United States to help.

When a natural disaster hits the USA, the world community is
silent.


Are you basing this on our wonderful media non-coverage of the "news?"
If
it doesn't involve a missing drunk white girl or a runaway bride, you
aren't
going to hear about it. Foreign coverage of the news is out of the
question
when you have to have several segments on lip gloss and or how to pick a
good plastic surgeon. I've been watching the news coverage of this
disaster
and it is pathetic. No one is asking any tough questions. Most of the
"reporters" couldn't find their ass in the dark with a flashlight.

Or a damn roadmap!

"Travis" wrote in message
news:JoIRe.7929$__1.5222@trnddc07...
Vox Humana wrote:

The disaster relief is a disaster and who will get the blame, the Bush
led federal government. It will be disaster for the Republicans next
election cycle. Yippee.


I fear your logical explanation will be invalidated by irrational voters.
Remember, the people who are dead and in peril in Louisiana rushed to polls
a few months ago to vote for an amendment to prohibit same-sex marriage, and
while they were there they voted Republican. They voted for 4 more years of
an administration that cut funding for flood control, including levee
constriction, for New Orleans. For some reason, people fear gays so much
that they will endanger themselves and knowingly vote against their own best
interest. As long as Republican can appeal to the dark side of our
population, they will prevail. Last year it was abortion, this year it is
gays, next year it will be something else. Never underestimate the power of
hate.

"presley" wrote in message
...
someone on this thread asked why other countries weren't helping us or
offering aid. As of yesterday, the UN and 31 countries had offered aid. In
many cases, there is no one in the US "organized" enough to figure out how
to utilize the aid being offered. And of course, our brilliant man at the
UN, John Bolton, is probably too busy telling the offering countries to
****
off to figure out how to take advantage of help from them.

How about this. We are refusing help:

"Jamaica was among the nations offering what help they could. But the
Kingston embassy, while stating its appreciation for the support, politely
declined the offers, saying in a statement: "The United States Government is
not yet requesting international assistance at this time."
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/..._ABANDONED.asp

"On tonight's news, CTV (Canadian TV) said that support was offered from
Canada. Planes are ready to load with food and medical supplies and a system
called "DART" which can provide fresh water and medical supplies is standing
by. Department of Homeland Security as well as other U.S. agencies were
contacted by the Canadian government requesting permission to provide help.
Despite this contact, Canada has not been allowed to fly supplies and
personnel to the areas hit by Katrina. So, everything here is grounded.
Prime Minister Paul Martin is reportedly trying to speak to President Bush
tonight or tomorrow to ask him why the U.S. federal government will not
allow aid from Canada into Louisiana and Mississippi. That said, the
Canadian Red Cross is reportedly allowed into the area.Canadian agencies are
saying that foreign aid is probably not being permitted into Louisiana and
Mississippi because of "mass confusion" at the U.S. federal level in the
wake of the storm."
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/31/235829/261

"madgardener" wrote in message
...
Whenever there is a natural disaster, the tsunami in the Indian Ocean
for example, the world community expects the United States to help.

When a natural disaster hits the USA, the world community is silent.


where are they when the coastal United States needs them now? This
disaster will affect not only the country's economy, but probably the
world's.........ah well, life goes on, does it not? And the hurricane
season is only half over.......

I think I take back what I said, it appears we do need the assistance of
other nations. Given that the world knew about the magnitude of this
hurricane atleast 4 days before the hurricane hit the new orleans area, they
had plenty of time to mobilize a recovery effort.

USN Comfort set sail 4 days after it hit landfall because it took them 4
days to get the crew and supplies onboard. Various navy ships including an
aircraft carrier have been sent to the region, again deployed after
landfall. They're not projected to arrive until the 2nd or 3rd week of
September. A bulk of the national guard from around the country is being
deployed 3-4 days after it was obvious the national guard was needed to
maintain order, and assist in the rebuild/rescue efforts. A better planned
system would have had the rescue crews enroute and scheduled to arrive a
day or two after it hit landfall.

What really makes wonder is that FEMA is part of the department of homeland
security. If this is the best that the DHS can do, after 4 years of issuing
all kinds of threat notices, color alerts and other lunacy, what will happen
when some terrorist manages to launch another surprise attack?

I suppose the sacrifice of lives, property and land was worth it, because
the world is safer from terrorists, cheaper oil and unmarried gay people.

-S

Today gas here is up to 1.39 a litre.Yesterday it was 1.21 and the day
before that it was 1.12 a litre. 3.00 a gallon sounds good right about now.
!

"Jean" wrote in message
news:mDnRe.3471$rj.1993@lakeread07...
madgardener wrote:
which reminds me, I need to
hit Wally world for arse wipe and liquid soap while I can and while gas
is ONLY $2.69 a gallon...........sigh...................
maddie

Gas hit the $3.00 mark here this morning in Cleveland Ohio.

Jean

In article says...
What really makes wonder is that FEMA is part of the department of homeland
security. If this is the best that the DHS can do, after 4 years of issuing
all kinds of threat notices, color alerts and other lunacy, what will happen
when some terrorist manages to launch another surprise attack?

FEMA and Homeland Security are a joke and this situation proves it.
What's the point of dispatching buses for 25,000 people? Are they
insane? If the buses can get in and out of the Superdome than I would
have thought that people could walk the same path and get out too.
Wouldn't it had been simpler to force everyone who could walk to walk
and reserve the buses for those that can't? All they had to do is set
up a spot along the interstate and turn it into a temporary tent city
with generators, food, water, and lots and lots of portapotties that
could be easily supplied. Point people to the Superdome and out to the
tent city and make them walk. It is ludicrous that they had these
people wait there for buses. One must wonder where all the billions
that Homeland Security spends if they didn't even have a contingency
plan for something everyone knew one day was going to happen. NOLA had
a scare last year and everyone talked about the entire city flooding.
And when it floods every single official had their head stuck firmly up
their ass looking into the cameras like a deer caught in the headlights.
They did virtually nothing for 3 days while these people sat at the
Superdome without food, water, or toilets. What kind of idiots are
running things down there?! Coming up with some sensible plan to get
these people out isn't rocket science.

"Lynn" wrote in message
...

Today gas here is up to 1.39 a litre.Yesterday it was 1.21 and the day
before that it was 1.12 a litre. 3.00 a gallon sounds good right about
now.
!

It's hard to compare gasoline price from one county to the next. People here
in the USA often proudly point to our low gas prices. They say "If you don't
like paying $2.65/gal go to Europe where they pay $6/gal. The problem with
this is that the people in Europe or the UK who pay big gas prices also have
national health care that is paid for by the high gas tax. Oil is a
commodity that is sold for the same price, more or less, to all takers. We
don't have cheap gas in the US because we are "blessed" or because we are
crafty deal makers. We have cheap gas because there are lower taxes and
fewer services. Other people have expensive gas AND health care. I'm not
sure we have the better deal. Two dollar a gallon gas won't do much for you
if you have no health care and you experience a major health crisis or you
have a chronic disease.

Mark Anderson wrote:
In article says...
What really makes wonder is that FEMA is part of the department
of homeland security. If this is the best that the DHS can do,
after 4 years of issuing all kinds of threat notices, color
alerts and other lunacy, what will happen when some terrorist
manages to launch another surprise attack?

FEMA and Homeland Security are a joke and this situation proves it.
What's the point of dispatching buses for 25,000 people? Are they
insane? If the buses can get in and out of the Superdome than I
would have thought that people could walk the same path and get out
too. Wouldn't it had been simpler to force everyone who could walk
to walk and reserve the buses for those that can't? All they had
to do is set up a spot along the interstate and turn it into a
temporary tent city with generators, food, water, and lots and lots
of portapotties that could be easily supplied. Point people to the
Superdome and out to the tent city and make them walk. It is
ludicrous that they had these people wait there for buses. One
must wonder where all the billions that Homeland Security spends if
they didn't even have a contingency plan for something everyone
knew one day was going to happen. NOLA had a scare last year and
everyone talked about the entire city flooding. And when it floods
every single official had their head stuck firmly up their ass
looking into the cameras like a deer caught in the headlights. They
did virtually nothing for 3 days while these people sat at the
Superdome without food, water, or toilets. What kind of idiots are
running things down there?! Coming up with some sensible plan to
get these people out isn't rocket science.

After they get them out they will rebuild a city that is below sea level
and will another day be a target for another hurricane.

--


Travis in Shoreline Washington

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:43:58 GMT, "Snooze"
opined:



I think I take back what I said, it appears we do need the assistance of
other nations. Given that the world knew about the magnitude of this
hurricane atleast 4 days before the hurricane hit the new orleans area, they
had plenty of time to mobilize a recovery effort.
Go back on the track "at least 4 days" before the hurricane hit and
provide us please with the data which revealed to you that it would
hit where it did, with the results that it had

USN Comfort set sail 4 days after it hit landfall because it took them 4
days to get the crew and supplies onboard.
That's the way it is set up to work; otherwise you would be bitching
about the $$$ that the DHS was spending waiting for events to happen
Various navy ships including an
aircraft carrier have been sent to the region, again deployed after
landfall. They're not projected to arrive until the 2nd or 3rd week of
September.
Hog wash. They will be on station Sunday and the USS Bataan was in
the gulf and has been supporting recovery ops since the onset.
A bulk of the national guard from around the country is being
deployed 3-4 days after it was obvious the national guard was needed to
maintain order, and assist in the rebuild/rescue efforts. A better planned
system would have had the rescue crews enroute and scheduled to arrive a
day or two after it hit landfall.
And how do you know exactly what is needed until landfall occurs? You
failed to note that the area was declared a disaster area before
landfall---which enabled the response that was received---good or bad;
had they waited it would have been later that it was

Roy
www.virginianewssource.com

well, after four days of refusing all foreign help, the administration
is now saying they will accept it all. they look like cretins. this is
one man made disaster.

The message
from "Snooze" contains these words:

I think I take back what I said, it appears we do need the assistance of
other nations. Given that the world knew about the magnitude of this
hurricane atleast 4 days before the hurricane hit the new orleans
area, they
had plenty of time to mobilize a recovery effort.

Unfortunately, the rest of the world assumed that the richest most
powerful nation on earth would be using those four days to prime-up its
pre-planned emergency relief services, which we assumed you would have
fully trained, practised and ready-to-go. We are completely horrified
and uncomprehending at the sluggish unprepared and grossly inadequate
response from your Govt.

Unfortunately that makes it even harder for countries outside to
know how to help the victims. It's not as if you're some helpless
rudderless third-world country where we can bring what's needed, wade
in, take control, and start organising the emergency rescue so
deperately needed. You've already got all the money, infrastructure,
skills, water clothes food medecine etc right there in the untouched
States but they aren't being put to use or delivered..and we just can't
see, from here, what outsiders can do to make it happen.

Janet (UK)