In article ,
enigma wrote:

Billy wrote in

ct.net.au:


All that and not one citation? You workin' on the cheap.

you want cites for free?!
on which? that HSUS is a PETA front? or the sunburn,
antifreeze & heartworm issues? or the toxoplasmosis?

Whachew tryin' to say girl? Go on an say it. I can take it
like a man, But if you make me cry, I'll get you in
trouble. I'll tell Charlie;-)

aaaah! not Charlie! i'll be good!
no, i think cats should be indoor outdoor creatures
(depending on where one lives, however), but i also think they
should be given more thought & care than they usually seem to
receive. in many places cats are still seen as a "disposable"
pet. there's lots of them, so why spend money on care? it's a
human mindset that i despise... but one that could be overcome
with education. after all, it wasn't so long ago that dogs
were disposable pets as well, & now people are asking for (&
apparently getting) hundreds of dollars for mutts (call it a
'designer breed')

i have a rooster with a broken leg. normally such a creature
would be soup, but i like this guy. he's got a pleasant
personality. so, he's not only not soup, he has a cast on his
leg & he's staying in my basement...
lee soft touch for critters

Good on you. Somebody has to carry the torch. Already to many "Shrubs"
in the world.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

In article ,
(paghat) wrote:

In article , Jangchub
wrote:

On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 10:10:56 -0700,
(paghat) wrote:

The record-holding oldest cats have had access to the outdoors and often
to barns and are permitted hunt. It is rare to hear of a completely indoor
cat that lives to age 20, the majority of cats that age having had access
to the outdoors or even living most of the time outdoors.


What happens to a cat if the moron next door puts out blue block
poison for rats and the sick rat gets caught alive and eaten by the
cat and the cat dies and the owner never knows what happened to the
cat and wonders forever? What then?

What happens if your house catches fire. What happens if your cat falls in
the toilet, the lid plops down, and though you manage to resuscitate it
with mouth to mouth, the fact that you save water by rarely flushing the
toilet means the cat got a terrible infection and died, and you had to
have your lips amputated. Hey, it's not scientifically impossible, so
start worryin!

Fact is the house burning down is a MUCH greater risk to the cat's
longevity than dying from poisons aimed at dehydrating animals that cannot
vomit, left out where kids or dogs or cats can get them. If you were
thinking rationally about it the poison threat is from eating carrion --
of any animal that has been poisoned.

Life is threatening. It doesn't get all that safer just because someone
seals their a cat up in a nice soft satin-lined coffin. If unlikely events
are your worry, why restrict them to what's outside? I had a ferret not
only open a cabinet I had no idea his little hands could open, but he
managed to spread soap all over the floor, then ran through it sliding and
having fun. Just luck he didn't open something poisonous. He was a house
ferret but eventually went to another owner who used him in the San Juans
as a rabbit hunter -- his quality of life rose by a lot with access to the
great outdoors at least now and then.

Why do you care so much about this? What's wrong, bad mood today?

I provided lots of notes on two sides of an issue with extra focus on the
side which people left off, but concluded that it was a case by case thing
and without ALL the facts a pet owner would inevitably make bad decisions.

The propoganda machine has to be overcome with big doses of reality and
only then can people can assess their situations and make rational choices
for themselves and their companion animals. If you believe only the
agendized slant & popular misinformation that only inside is safe, you
can't make an intelligent decision. And that looks cranky only to someone
who only wants to hear the "only inside is safe" arguments and gets
threatened or peevish when that turns out not to fit well with the entire
truth.

MOST people who never let their cats outside are killing them slowly and
will have them suffering of terrible diseases their last few years. That
doesn't necessarily mean they should let them outside now and then, but if
that's really not safe, then perhaps just shouldn't own a cat at all, if a
risk-free life is one's criteria.

In our neighborhood cats run free, though it's not legal. As my garden
attracts more birds than anyones, I'm visited by cats from a half-dozen
houses, and now and then a bird gets wasted but surprisingly few (no
super-hunters among these spoiled cats). Neighbor cats annoy me sometimes,
but so did the racoon that tore up my little pond, & I'm not going to lock
up all the racoons and the neighbors' cats for it. One cat's owner has a
hyperactive scottish terrier, so the cat has moved into our carport and is
there more than its home. It's a quiet suburban st reet of houses and I've
never seen a cat dead at the side of any street around here (and I walk
our dog three times a day so I'd see 'em). HAVE seen a few squirrels
flattened though. Maybe we should keep 'em in the house.

-paggers

Not a good idea. Was nursing a young squirrel, who screamed every time
you tried to leave her. When she wasn't racing around on the curtain
roods she would set on top of my 400 watt amplifier. I guess she thought
that since there was a grating, no one would notice if she relieved
herself. Boy, squirrel pee can really eat up a circuit board:-(
At least, the next time a squirrel comes to stay, I won't have that
problem:-(
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

"paghat" wrote in message
In article , Charlie wrote:

Our cat has the run of the place, indoors and out, as he chooses,
24/7. He is a highly skilled hunter. Up until five years ago, the
neighborhood was overrun with rabbits,
In the six years since he moved to town, he has nearly eliminated the
neighborhood rabbits
His best night of hunting, was nine young rabbits he brought to us on
the patio over a four hour period.

Some people would use that as a story proving cats should be locked up.
They kill everything. That's one hummer of a hunter though; most cats
cannot even catch a half-grown rat which is already too big & smart for
most cats, which have to hunt eight-week-old rats or deermice and field
mice. The cat that can catch rabbits is a tough *******.

Huh? I'd say that is just a normal cat. All of my cats have been able to
catch fully grown rats and nearly all of them have come home with adult
rabbits although some have only caught half grown rabbits (at least that I
have witnessed). If a normal adult cat can't catch a fully grown rat or
rabbit, then it must be a very pampered domestic cat that has never been
allowed to play with more than a stuffed toy. I currently have a very small
spayed female cat (18 years old and now blind, but otherwise healthy and
still using the outdoors in addition to the house) and she has caught fully
grown rabbits, many kitten rabbits as well as many adult rats.

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:34:40 -0700, Billy wrote:


Ok, but if'n you pick up the scissors, I'm out of here.

I might also point out that I NEVER advocated nothin'. I simply
reported that some people said a house cat had a longer life and I gave
citations to support the fact that it wasn't my idea but that of people
of supposed authority. Sheesh.

Oh, speaking of authorities. Ya know this 'smorning, while I was
rummaging about for some information on re-potting for Akumos, every
knuckle head expert recommended fertilizing seedlings. Aint't that
sumthin? Wow, what a bunch of . . . Charlie, why you gettin' that
strange look? Uh-huh. Maybe I should come back later, ciiiao.

Heeeere Billy, Billy, Billy....good boy....come here old boy....that's
a nice fella.....

snick snick snick snick)

OK but the next time I talk to Ann, you'll have to help me sew them back
on.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

"enigma" wrote in message
. ..
"George.com" wrote in
:

agreed, good common sense comments. I always pick my dog
poop up when we go out for a walk but empty the bag under
my hedge. I cannot see too much wrong with that. I worm the
mutts and keep other parasites under control with them.

as long as your hedge isn't in an area where water runoff
occurs, that's probably ok. but if it's near a body of water
(including storm drain/street runoff), then it's a bad idea.

you throw the poop under trees or hedges & let natures deconstruction crew
take care of it. Yes, some nutrients from the poop may find their way in to
the water system, I have no way of knowing. The poop will have gone through
a layer of mulch and earth on its way down however. It also takes a time for
the poop to decompose so the plant feeding is from a nice slow fertiliser.

rob

Charlie wrote in message
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:09:50 +1100, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

All of my cats have been able to
catch fully grown rats and nearly all of them have come home with adult
rabbits although some have only caught half grown rabbits (at least that I
have witnessed). If a normal adult cat can't catch a fully grown rat or
rabbit, then it must be a very pampered domestic cat that has never been
allowed to play with more than a stuffed toy. I currently have a very
small
spayed female cat (18 years old and now blind, but otherwise healthy and
still using the outdoors in addition to the house) and she has caught
fully
grown rabbits, many kitten rabbits as well as many adult rats.


I think it is pretty cool when the cat brings home food for his people.
If we aren't around to accept his gift, he will leave it at the door
for us to find and/or carry it in when we let him in.

It is interesting the way they do that. I wonder why they do it. Do they
think we are their litter or too incompetent to feed ourselves?????

In our last place (a historic Rectory with too many holes to the outside) we
once had a rat in the kitchen. We locked the cat in there and next morning
she was sitting as neat as a pin with the dead rat curled around her front
feet. I swear she was smiling and simpering when we went in there the next
morning.

Just goes to show folks that very valuable garden tools are not always
made of wood and steel.

True, but I do wish the dogs wouldn't throw themselves upside down in front
of me for a belly rub when I'm trying to weed - slothful wretches.

Aside: Since we last spoke, last fall sometime, we have added a third
ankle-biter to the grand-kids. Little girl, now in her sixth month.
It's getting busy for us old folks here! :-)

Congrats Grandpa! Grandchildren are such a delight (and soooo much better
than ones own children).

Hope you're feeling well and life is good for you.

Yes thank you, just getting old creaky but I have to live till I'm 150 to
finish everything I want to do yet. Winter is now beginning and I suspect
that it will be a long one as it's early. May the summer be a good one for
your Northern hemisphere bods.

"Vastmasd" wrote in message
"George.com" wrote:

you throw the poop under trees or hedges & let natures deconstruction crew
take care of it. Yes, some nutrients from the poop may find their way in
to
the water system, I have no way of knowing. The poop will have gone
through
a layer of mulch and earth on its way down however. It also takes a time
for
the poop to decompose so the plant feeding is from a nice slow fertiliser.

I tend to differ. If you have cow manure then certainly place it on your
garden, horse manure contains seeds so I would recommend first placing it
in your compost bin. If you exercise your dog their poo can contain
unforeseeably elements so it is best put in a plastic bag then placed in
your garbage bin.

I used to know a professional gardener who swore that dog poop was the best
thing to fertilise lemon trees. Not tried it myself but given the regular
advice I hear about the six-pack beer fertiliser for lemon trees and the
planting of a passionfruit on top of a cow's liver, I'm not going to
discount his advice till I have tried it.

In article
,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:09:50 +1100, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

All of my cats have been able to
catch fully grown rats and nearly all of them have come home with adult
rabbits although some have only caught half grown rabbits (at least that I
have witnessed). If a normal adult cat can't catch a fully grown rat or
rabbit, then it must be a very pampered domestic cat that has never been
allowed to play with more than a stuffed toy. I currently have a very
small
spayed female cat (18 years old and now blind, but otherwise healthy and
still using the outdoors in addition to the house) and she has caught
fully
grown rabbits, many kitten rabbits as well as many adult rats.


I think it is pretty cool when the cat brings home food for his people.
If we aren't around to accept his gift, he will leave it at the door
for us to find and/or carry it in when we let him in.

It is interesting the way they do that. I wonder why they do it. Do they
think we are their litter or too incompetent to feed ourselves?????

In our last place (a historic Rectory with too many holes to the outside) we
once had a rat in the kitchen. We locked the cat in there and next morning
she was sitting as neat as a pin with the dead rat curled around her front
feet. I swear she was smiling and simpering when we went in there the next
morning.

Just goes to show folks that very valuable garden tools are not always
made of wood and steel.

True, but I do wish the dogs wouldn't throw themselves upside down in front
of me for a belly rub when I'm trying to weed - slothful wretches.

Aside: Since we last spoke, last fall sometime, we have added a third
ankle-biter to the grand-kids. Little girl, now in her sixth month.
It's getting busy for us old folks here! :-)

Congrats Grandpa! Grandchildren are such a delight (and soooo much better
than ones own children).

Hope you're feeling well and life is good for you.

Yes thank you, just getting old creaky but I have to live till I'm 150 to
finish everything I want to do yet. Winter is now beginning and I suspect
that it will be a long one as it's early. May the summer be a good one for
your Northern hemisphere bods.

Early, dry spring on the Pacific Coast. Temps were below normal but that
has straightened itself out. Al least there was time to work and
visualize in the garden.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 23:02:24 +1100, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:09:50 +1100, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

All of my cats have been able to
catch fully grown rats and nearly all of them have come home with adult
rabbits although some have only caught half grown rabbits (at least that I
have witnessed). If a normal adult cat can't catch a fully grown rat or
rabbit, then it must be a very pampered domestic cat that has never been
allowed to play with more than a stuffed toy. I currently have a very
small
spayed female cat (18 years old and now blind, but otherwise healthy and
still using the outdoors in addition to the house) and she has caught
fully
grown rabbits, many kitten rabbits as well as many adult rats.


I think it is pretty cool when the cat brings home food for his people.
If we aren't around to accept his gift, he will leave it at the door
for us to find and/or carry it in when we let him in.

It is interesting the way they do that. I wonder why they do it. Do they
think we are their litter or too incompetent to feed ourselves?????

In our last place (a historic Rectory with too many holes to the outside) we
once had a rat in the kitchen. We locked the cat in there and next morning
she was sitting as neat as a pin with the dead rat curled around her front
feet. I swear she was smiling and simpering when we went in there the next
morning.

Until Stan came to us, I wasn't aware of the extent of cat vocalization
either. He uses different language for different situations.
DIfferent pitches and intonations. Sometimes he "chirps" in one way
when he has found us outside, a different way when he is bringing us a
gift....I don't know.....I didn't realize the variety and subtlety to
cat communication, both in posture and vocally.

Just goes to show folks that very valuable garden tools are not always
made of wood and steel.

True, but I do wish the dogs wouldn't throw themselves upside down in front
of me for a belly rub when I'm trying to weed - slothful wretches.

Heh heh.....ain't that the truth. The daft critters can set you on yer
arse too when they love you in the garden, all squatted down and all.
;-)


Aside: Since we last spoke, last fall sometime, we have added a third
ankle-biter to the grand-kids. Little girl, now in her sixth month.
It's getting busy for us old folks here! :-)

Congrats Grandpa! Grandchildren are such a delight (and soooo much better
than ones own children).

Amen. I can honestly say I haven't lost my cool with them ever.
And...I have found that my respect for and relationship with my boys,
which has always been pretty good, has improved since they were born.

I guess we were perhaps too caught up in the busyness of life when our
own were little. It is simply wonderous to see them learn and grow and
I am so blessed to be able to be part of this learning. And so often
plumb worn out!


Hope you're feeling well and life is good for you.

Yes thank you, just getting old creaky but I have to live till I'm 150 to
finish everything I want to do yet. Winter is now beginning and I suspect
that it will be a long one as it's early. May the summer be a good one for
your Northern hemisphere bods.


I hope your winter isn't as long and dreary as ours was this year
(smack in the middle of the US, NW Missouri). Snow cover from mid-Nov
until mid-March. Major icestorm that took out our power for 4 days,
others for up to a week Spring is not developing well. It is
unseasonably wet and cold, nothing is greening yet and daytime temps
struggle to rise out of the 40sF. They say it is to improve a bit next
week, tempwise. Several areas of the central US are in major flood
situation and it looks to get worse.

Ah well, winter is the time for books and dreams and extra time with
the younguns, depending upon one's situation.

You know, this converse with others in opposite seasons is a bit of a
headtrip for me. Things that are just the way they for me, are
entirely different for others. Like, how the hell can you have
christmas, advent, kwanzaa, hanukkah, whatever one wants to call the
season (being careful not to offend anyone ;-) ) in the friggin'
summertime? ;-)

Care
Charlie

Aw, come on Charlie. Does Santa's little helpers in bikinis help? Hmmm?
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

Charlie wrote in message

Until Stan came to us, I wasn't aware of the extent of cat vocalization
either. He uses different language for different situations.
DIfferent pitches and intonations. Sometimes he "chirps" in one way
when he has found us outside, a different way when he is bringing us a
gift....I don't know.....I didn't realize the variety and subtlety to
cat communication, both in posture and vocally.

:-)) I know what you mean. The current geriatric tiny female we have is a
boring little cat but we did have a cat which had a massive
vocal/postural/expression range too. I'd not met a cat before like him till
my daughter brought him home (and the geriatric old female we have is hers
too, but lives here). Sadly the vocal interesting cat was bitten by a snake
and is no more, but I still miss him.

Congrats Grandpa! Grandchildren are such a delight (and soooo much better
than ones own children).

Amen. I can honestly say I haven't lost my cool with them ever.
And...I have found that my respect for and relationship with my boys,
which has always been pretty good, has improved since they were born.

I guess we were perhaps too caught up in the busyness of life when our
own were little. It is simply wonderous to see them learn and grow and
I am so blessed to be able to be part of this learning. And so often
plumb worn out!

:-)) Now it's all care and limited responsibility + having the time now
which we didn't have whilst earning a crust, looking after the offspring
etc.


Hope you're feeling well and life is good for you.

Yes thank you, just getting old creaky but I have to live till I'm 150 to
finish everything I want to do yet. Winter is now beginning and I suspect
that it will be a long one as it's early. May the summer be a good one
for
your Northern hemisphere bods.


I hope your winter isn't as long and dreary as ours was this year
(smack in the middle of the US, NW Missouri). Snow cover from mid-Nov
until mid-March.

Brrrrrr! I often wonder how you lot put up with it. I've never wanted to
live anywhere where I couldn't dry my clothes outside on the line all year
round.

Major icestorm that took out our power for 4 days,
others for up to a week

Yes, the US weather made the news here (and on more than one occasion, as
did the European weather). Can't say that I watched it with envy :-))

Spring is not developing well. It is
unseasonably wet and cold, nothing is greening yet and daytime temps
struggle to rise out of the 40sF. They say it is to improve a bit next
week, tempwise. Several areas of the central US are in major flood
situation and it looks to get worse.

It'll get warmer no doubt. Our Spring started the same way but we still
ended up with stinkingly hot mid summer temps.

As for the rain, I was just reading a news report that in the north of the
country, the January rain figures were 39inches and the February figure was
even higher (or it could be the reverse, but it was a huge lot of rain).

Ah well, winter is the time for books and dreams and extra time with
the younguns, depending upon one's situation.

Yep, catalogues and books and some tidying up and manure spreading.

You know, this converse with others in opposite seasons is a bit of a
headtrip for me. Things that are just the way they for me, are
entirely different for others. Like, how the hell can you have
christmas, advent, kwanzaa, hanukkah, whatever one wants to call the
season (being careful not to offend anyone ;-) ) in the friggin'
summertime? ;-)

Dead easy :-)). It's summer and thus time for parties, barbecues and
holidays (vacations). That cold stuff is not conducive to celebrating for
maximum pleasure.

Until I lived in Britain in the mid '70s I only ever knew a hot Christmas.
Cold Christmas/New Year is just plain wrong, wrong, wrong. How is it
possible to have a great time if it's cold and there is no real time off
from the normal grind?

Here Manual Workers/factories/schools stop about a week before Christmas and
then everyone goes on holiday (vaction) till the end of January -long lazy
summer downtime with parties, parties, parties for about 6 or 7 weeks.

Our family has also always done the traditional hot Christmas lunch (turkey,
roast veg, hot flaming with Brandy Xmas Pud) and then at about 3.00pm,
everyone complains how they've eaten too much and retires to the nearest
shade/bed and sleeps it off. Some people do a cold lunch (like
Lobster/seafood etc) lunch but to our family that is 'not on'.

"Billy" wrote in message news:wildbilly-
In article , Charlie wrote:

You know, this converse with others in opposite seasons is a bit of a
headtrip for me. Things that are just the way they for me, are
entirely different for others. Like, how the hell can you have
christmas, advent, kwanzaa, hanukkah, whatever one wants to call the
season (being careful not to offend anyone ;-) ) in the friggin'
summertime? ;-)

Aw, come on Charlie. Does Santa's little helpers in bikinis help? Hmmm?

:-)) Now there is a man who understands! :-))

"Vastmasd" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Vastmasd" wrote in message
"George.com" wrote:

you throw the poop under trees or hedges & let natures deconstruction
crew
take care of it. Yes, some nutrients from the poop may find their way
in
to
the water system, I have no way of knowing. The poop will have gone
through
a layer of mulch and earth on its way down however. It also takes a time
for
the poop to decompose so the plant feeding is from a nice slow
fertiliser.

I tend to differ. If you have cow manure then certainly place it on your
garden, horse manure contains seeds so I would recommend first placing
it
in your compost bin. If you exercise your dog their poo can contain
unforeseeably elements so it is best put in a plastic bag then placed in
your garbage bin.

I used to know a professional gardener who swore that dog poop was the
best
thing to fertilise lemon trees. Not tried it myself but given the regular
advice I hear about the six-pack beer fertiliser for lemon trees and the
planting of a passionfruit on top of a cow's liver, I'm not going to
discount his advice till I have tried it.

I haven't heard of the six-pack beer fertiliser for lemon trees

Find a willing male. Buy him a six-pack of beer and make sure he drinks the
lot in one sitting. When the inevitable happens, make sure he points Percy
at the soil around the base of the lemon tree. Standard advice on local
gardening shows round here is that this is the household male's last nightly
job (beer or no beer).

or the
planting of a passion fruit on top of a cow's liver, so I would be
interested to learn more about it. ;-)

Buy a cow's liver and then dig a hole, put the liver into it, cover it with
an inch or two of soil and then put in the passionfruit plant and backfill
around it.

At a previous address I had an above ground chook pen with a galvanised
iron floor that could accommodate up to 8 chooks and at the time I had
unlimited access to wood shavings from a local timber yard. I would place
wood shavings in the chook shed to let's say 2 foot thick and in addition
to feeding them pellets from a feeder I would throw in additional food
scraps and vegetable cuttings etc.

I grew up on a (free range) poultry farm and each year the sheds were dug
out by an old professional gardener (I earned pocket money holding the feed
bags while he shovelled the sh.. manure into them). After they were clean,
we got in a load of sawdust and spread it and then it waited till next year
when the old bloke came back to clean them and so the cycle repeated.

Getting back to lemon trees, periodically the chook shed needed to be
cleaned out and my lemon tree was the sole recipient. That lemon tree
produced magnificent lemons and the tree never needed additional
fertiliser.

Yep. I can believe that.

I'm not going to discount the advice of the professional gardener you once
knew either. ;-)

I walk my dogs daily in a park where dogs are permitted to walk off lead
and also swim in sal****er which I think helps to keep them clean and free
of fleas. Of course the park is frequented by many other dogs and the
owners don't always pick up when walking their dogs, so my dogs are likely
to pick up various types of worm infections.

I treat my dogs on the first day of the month with tablets claimed to
eradicate heartworm, roundworm, whipworm, hookworm and tapeworm.

Any hydatids where you are? I live in an area which is the world's hydatids
capital. Filthy, filthy disease.

Because I place my pets droppings in the garbage bin I believe that
reduces
the chances of my dogs being re-infected with worms they might have picked
up in the previous Month. So I believe I am reducing the chances of them
being re infected from their own droppings.

In view of the bulk of materials that can safely be added to your compost
bin or garden and the smaller quantity of dog poop that is probably
available and with dubious value for your garden, the final question I
would ask, is dog poop a valuable contribution to your garden or should
you
put it in the garbage bin or just flush it down the dunny.

That is one of those 'it depends' situations. In suburbia, I wouldn't use it
at all (with the exception perhaps of that lemon I want to experiment on [if
I could get one to survive]) But, having written that, I live on a farm,
don't have to walk my dogs and I never saw any dog poop until we 'inherited'
a Cavalier King Charles Spanial. This dog came to us from a small
retirement house with a miniscule 'garden' (Hah!) and so thought he had to
poop right at the base of the main entry to the house. His poops are put
into a metal bucket and taken to the tip. The other dogs still poop in the
bushes and I never see their droppings.

In article ,
sammy-2-garden wrote:

hello all, i have joined this forum to be my help for this year of
gardening!!
i have a long garden which needs some attention

the main problem i have at the moment is ''poo'' from cat/fox on my
grass and in the bed, can i have some help on how to stop this as i
have a 16 months old little girl and wud like her to play outside.
(obviously have picked the bits up but need a long term solution )

Something to consider.

Bill who placed the **** below.

...........................

1: Pediatr Pulmonol. 2008 Feb;43(2):107-16.
Links

Childhood asthma epidemiology: insights from comparative studies of
rural and urban populations.
Wong GW, Chow CM.
Department of Pediatrics, Prince of Wales Hospital, Chinese University
of Hong Kong, Shatin, NT, China.
Asthma is one of the most common chronic respiratory disorders. Many
epidemiology studies have suggested an increasing trend of asthma in
many different regions of the world but the exact reasons explaining
such trend remain unclear. Nevertheless, changing environmental factors
are most likely important in explaining the trend of asthma. Studies in
the past decade have clearly shown a mark difference in the prevalence
between urban and rural regions. The consistent findings of a markedly
lower prevalence of asthma in children and adults who have been brought
up in a farming environment clearly indicate the importance of
environmental influence of asthma development. Although the exact
protective environmental factors in the rural region remain to be
defined,

****there have been many studies suggesting that early exposure to
microbes or microbial products may play a role in modulating the immune
system so as to reduce the future risk of asthma and allergies.****


Advances in the understanding of the genetic predisposition and how
these genetic factors may interact with specific environment factors are
of paramount importance for the future development of primary preventive
strategies for asthma. Copyright 2007 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
PMID: 18092349 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

.................................................. ............

Ann Allergy Asthma Immunol. 2006 Apr;96(4):571-8.
Links

Effect of animal contact and microbial exposures on the prevalence of
atopy and asthma in urban vs rural children in India.
Vedanthan PK, Mahesh PA, Vedanthan R, Holla AD, Liu AH.
University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, Denver, USA.

BACKGROUND: Environmental factors, including microbial exposures and
close animal contact, are implicated in the lower prevalence of asthma
and allergy in rural vs urban children. OBJECTIVES: To determine (1) the
prevalence of asthma, rhinitis, eczema, and atopic sensitization in
rural and urban children in India; (2) differences in microbial and
animal exposures in these locales; and (3) whether differences in
environmental exposures account for the different rates of asthma and
atopy in these locales. METHODS: One child from each of 50 urban
(Mysore) and 50 rural (Vinobha) households in southern India was
randomly selected for data analysis. Allergy, asthma, health,
environment, and lifestyle information was obtained using a
questionnaire and household inspections. Atopy was determined via skin
prick testing for common allergens. Endotoxin content was measured in
house dust samples. RESULTS: Children from rural vs urban areas had
lower prevalences of self-reported asthma (8% vs 30%; P = .005),
rhinitis (22% vs 42%; P = .03), and atopic sensitization (36% vs 58%; P
= .03). Higher median dust endotoxin loads were found in rural vs urban
households (6.50 x 10(4) EU/m2 vs 1.27 x 10(4) EU/m2; P .001). In
multivariate analysis, close indoor animal contact (adjusted odds ratio
[OR] 0.2; 90% confidence interval [CI], 0.05-0.9), outdoor animal
contact (OR, 0.3; 90% CI, 0.1-0.8), and exclusive breastfeeding for at
least 6 months (OR, 0.2; 90% CI, 0.1-0.5) were associated with lower
atopic sensitization; mud flooring was associated with lower
self-reported wheezing (OR, 0.1; 90% CI, 0.02-1.0).

****CONCLUSION: Children in India who live with close animal contact and
mud flooring and who were exclusively breastfed in infancy are less
likely to develop asthma, rhinitis, and atopic sensitization.****


PMID: 16680928 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

2) ... best way to grass a patch of mud, very shaded damp area

Perhaps a piece of sod from another area of your garden.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

its so frustrating, just confidently approach ur neighbour and say u do not want the dogs anywhere near ur garden then go from there at least then u have tried that option....
i had a neighbour who let there dog out and it wud poo on the front lawn (very small lawn) and watch it the not clean it up ..did it right in front of me standing outside my front door!! i just dont get some ppl!!

Charlie wrote in message
On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 19:28:10 +1100, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

One last thing on Stan. When I am slow on picking up the Dane's eggs,
the cat carefully covers them with the wood mulch where the dog craps.
It's funny watching him cover a pile of huge turds.

LOL. That I would like to see. But it doesn't really surprise me given how
'tidy' some cats can be.

Here Manual Workers/factories/schools stop about a week before Christmas
and
then everyone goes on holiday (vaction) till the end of January -long lazy
summer downtime with parties, parties, parties for about 6 or 7 weeks.

Get outta here!!! This sounds so foreign to me. Wow.

I should perhaps have explained that not all of Oz is on holiday at that
time. Having been a clerical worker, I hated being on holiday while all the
ankle biters were infesting everywhere I wanted to go. We used to wait till
the kids went back to school before taking our 4 weeks annual leave, but we
still had about 10 days off over Christmas what with the public
holidays/office closures etc.

Our family has also always done the traditional hot Christmas lunch
(turkey,
roast veg, hot flaming with Brandy Xmas Pud) and then at about 3.00pm,
everyone complains how they've eaten too much and retires to the nearest
shade/bed and sleeps it off. Some people do a cold lunch (like
Lobster/seafood etc) lunch but to our family that is 'not on'.

As do we, including the sleeping it off, only to awaken, feeling just a
touch peckish, and then graze, on leftovers and sweets, our way into
bedtime.

Sounds very familiar :-))