Saw that Obama has a shot. I voted for him in the primary but I
wonder why Hilary stalled. Aside from policy they espoused which I am
ignorant of I sort of feel that Bill Clinton hurt her a lot.
Bill is a smart guy like Gore both Rhode scholars. So why did Bill
become a negative for his spouse?
I'd hazard a guess his bypass and follow up surgery's caused a change
in his personality and view of world issues. This surgery given glib
concern can and does effect people in a profound way. Causal inspection
seems OK but the reality of just how close passing is can diminish ones
joy of life. This joy I feel is crucial in dealing with life's minor
set backs it color's it if you will how we deal with being here. ( Yet
another reason to plant stuff).
So Bill becomes more of a negative than a positive. Mystery protrudes
an effects how our country will be governed in the near future. Has to
be better.

Bill 7 hours on a pump and writes stupid stuff but the mass media
ignores me and Bill Clinton has fame to suffer.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
Neat place .. http://www.petersvalley.org/

Bill wrote:
I voted for him in the primary but I
wonder why Hilary stalled.


crap deleted


Why do some of you people find it necessary to post off-topic political
CRAP in our garden newsgroup?

In case you don't know it there are dozens of newsgroups and hundreds of
website where you can discuss politics.

PLEASE, let's keep the politics OUT of this newsgroup. Some of us do
gardening to escape (a little). And for the record, I AM interested in
politics, but NOT here.
--
Bill R. (Ohio Valley, U.S.A)



To see pictures from my garden visit http://members.iglou.com/brosen

Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL

Remove NO_WEEDS_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

In article ,
Bill R wrote:

Bill wrote:
I voted for him in the primary but I
wonder why Hilary stalled.


crap deleted


Why do some of you people find it necessary to post off-topic political
CRAP in our garden newsgroup?

In case you don't know it there are dozens of newsgroups and hundreds of
website where you can discuss politics.

PLEASE, let's keep the politics OUT of this newsgroup. Some of us do
gardening to escape (a little). And for the record, I AM interested in
politics, but NOT here.

Well I find gardener's to possess extremely grounded opinions. Don't
like what I write is why god created kill files.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
Neat place .. http://www.petersvalley.org/

Bill wrote:
In article ,
Bill R wrote:


Bill wrote:

I voted for him in the primary but I
wonder why Hilary stalled.


crap deleted


Why do some of you people find it necessary to post off-topic political
CRAP in our garden newsgroup?

In case you don't know it there are dozens of newsgroups and hundreds of
website where you can discuss politics.

PLEASE, let's keep the politics OUT of this newsgroup. Some of us do
gardening to escape (a little). And for the record, I AM interested in
politics, but NOT here.


Well I find gardener's to possess extremely grounded opinions. Don't
like what I write is why god created kill files.

Bill


Why should I need this create kill files because some inconsiderate
person like you decides to "make" this another political newsgroup?

Please have a little respect for the charter of this newsgroup and use
it for what it is for -- discussion of gardening.

As I said, there are MANY other places to discuss politics. PLEASE use
them for politics and let us discuss gardening HERE.
--
Bill R. (Ohio Valley, U.S.A)



To see pictures from my garden visit http://members.iglou.com/brosen

Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL

Remove NO_WEEDS_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

Persephone wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:19:24 -0500, Jangchub
wrote:

[...]

Our voting system is archaic and needs a major overhaul.

[...]

Understatement of the millennium! Whole thing is shot to
****.

First thing is get the money out of politics. It is downright
obscene how the ****ing media kept running tabs on who raised the most
money! As if that had anything to do with their qualifications for
office. The power of those near-criminal lobbyists must somehow be
restricted without trampling on their ****ing First Amendment rights.

Next thing is to do away with "winner takes all" for each state, and
institute a proportional system. Flush the Electoral College down the
toilet where it belongs. Let the popular vote determine.

The Founders left us a system that has been the envy of the world.
It's sad how we're allowing it to be trashed; what kind of country
are we leaving our children!

Persephone

Don't get me wrong, I am agreeing with you mostly. However, many folks need
to research what the need for the delegate system was when instituted. That
is, what was the original purpose of the delegate system, why was it
created? Why is it inappropriate now on the basis of why the delegate
system was originally created?

No, regarding state to state. If you're going to use the popular vote,
simply the number total for all states determine the victor. No wishy-washy
stuff.

Most children that I know are of the opinion that they are deserving of
everything, no work or allegiance to anyone involved. No genuine
participation and/or familiarity with reality is needed. The parents coddle
them to hell.
--
Dave

In article ,
Bill R wrote:

Bill wrote:
In article ,
Bill R wrote:


Bill wrote:

I voted for him in the primary but I
wonder why Hilary stalled.


crap deleted


Why do some of you people find it necessary to post off-topic political
CRAP in our garden newsgroup?

In case you don't know it there are dozens of newsgroups and hundreds of
website where you can discuss politics.

PLEASE, let's keep the politics OUT of this newsgroup. Some of us do
gardening to escape (a little). And for the record, I AM interested in
politics, but NOT here.


Well I find gardener's to possess extremely grounded opinions. Don't
like what I write is why god created kill files.

Bill


Why should I need this create kill files because some inconsiderate
person like you decides to "make" this another political newsgroup?

Please have a little respect for the charter of this newsgroup and use
it for what it is for -- discussion of gardening.

As I said, there are MANY other places to discuss politics. PLEASE use
them for politics and let us discuss gardening HERE.

I need to ask if the price of food isn't political, if the reduced
bio-diversity of the seed we buy isn't political, if the quality (crops
designed for quantity and shelf life instead of nutrition) and quantity
(of nutrient poor processed foods) of our food isn't political, if the
information we receive about nutrition from our HMOs and government
isn't political, if the concentration of control over our food supplies
isn't political, if the production (supposedly regulated) and
distribution (to the Seven-Elevens of our inner cities) of our food
isn't political, if the treatment of consumers of food isn't cut from
the same whole cloth as is our military and social policies. Growing a
garden means that the food that is available commercially, isn't
acceptable to us (be it esthetics, cost, flavor, or health risks) and I
believe, that is a political statement.

This is a general newsgroup about the broad spectrum of nurturing
vegetative life, and like it or not, there is a political dimension to
it.

In a perfect world, this would not be the case, and we could spend our
time trying to perfect the perfect carrot or whatever. We try to monitor
ourselves, and ****ing and moaning about perceived excesses is your
right as part of the group, and I'm sure it will some have an effect.
Unfortunately, political policies do affect food production, including
gardening.
--

Billy
Bush Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:28:04 -0700, Persephone wrote:

what kind of country are we leaving our children!

One poisoned by idiots who *use* poison.....both mental/ideological and
literal poison.......such as roundup and ortho shit.

Charlie

Oh Charlie (LOL), don't you go and sugar coat it. You know stuff happens.
If the Lucrezia Borgia of Santa Monica wasn't off poisoning the
environment, she might not have any life at all. The Santa Monica Coop
http://www.coopportunity.com/co_opCo...er/current.htm does
have a couple of good videos that you probably would enjoy.
--

Billy
Bush Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

Jangchub wrote in
:

People don't like the Clinton's, but the "Clinton's" are
not running for president, Hillary is. She won by popular
vote. Our voting system is archaic and needs a major
overhaul. I do not think Obama has what it takes to be the
president.

i didn't dislike Bill Clinton & i think the whole "scandal"
thing was stupid, but Hillary is NOT Bill and she's NOT
presidential material. i'm glad she finally woke up &
conceeded. she did not have the popular vote (unless you count
FL & MI, where no one else ran against her, & don't count the
caucus states) either. she also couldn't have possibly won
against McCain, & that is the important part. she may have had
a good Democratic base, but the independant & swing voters
disliked her. if you look at the polls, a Clinton vs McCain
race was always quite solidly won by McCain, whereas an
Obama/McCain match is much closer & leans to Obama.
if the Democrats had run Clinton, it would have allowed the
Dems to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...
i have no issues with Hillary as a person & i think she's a
decent senator for NY, but as president? no way! she's Bush jr
in a dress. delusions of power & all.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

Charlie wrote in
:

On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 19:28:07 -0400, Bill R
wrote:

Please have a little respect for the charter of this
newsgroup and use it for what it is for -- discussion of
gardening.

This is interesting......I have searched for the charter
for rec.gardens and I cannot find it. Would you please
post it for those of us who are too ignorant and/or lazy to
do a proper search and/or stay on topic.

since it's *clearly* labelled as OT & political, it's easily
deleated by those who do not wish to read it. if i have time
later, i'll see if i can find the charter for rec.gardens, but
i will say that i've been reading here for over 12 years &
there has always been some political content.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

On Jun 4, 6:37*pm, Bill wrote:
In article ,
*Bill R wrote:





Bill wrote:
*I voted for him in the primary but I
wonder why Hilary stalled.

crap deleted

Why do some of you people find it necessary to post off-topic political
CRAP in our garden newsgroup?

In case you don't know it there are dozens of newsgroups and hundreds of
website where you can discuss politics.

PLEASE, let's keep the politics OUT of this newsgroup. *Some of us do
gardening to escape (a little). *And for the record, I AM interested in
politics, but NOT here.

*Well I find gardener's to possess extremely grounded opinions. *Don't
like what I write is why god created kill files. *

*Bill

My read of your original post was that the bypass surgery may have
effected Bill Clinton's outlook. A second thought, having had similar
myself, is that it can effect mental processes due to potential for
ministrokes that go un detected and a person's mental outlook is also
effected. Could have effect on your gardening or your politics. See
no problem posting here. If I ever have a concern it is with Billy's
stupid signature ;(
Frank

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Bill R wrote:

Bill wrote:
In article ,
Bill R wrote:


Bill wrote:

I voted for him in the primary but I
wonder why Hilary stalled.


crap deleted


Why do some of you people find it necessary to post off-topic political
CRAP in our garden newsgroup?

In case you don't know it there are dozens of newsgroups and hundreds of
website where you can discuss politics.

PLEASE, let's keep the politics OUT of this newsgroup. Some of us do
gardening to escape (a little). And for the record, I AM interested in
politics, but NOT here.


Well I find gardener's to possess extremely grounded opinions. Don't
like what I write is why god created kill files.

Bill


Why should I need this create kill files because some inconsiderate
person like you decides to "make" this another political newsgroup?

Please have a little respect for the charter of this newsgroup and use
it for what it is for -- discussion of gardening.

As I said, there are MANY other places to discuss politics. PLEASE use
them for politics and let us discuss gardening HERE.

I need to ask if the price of food isn't political, if the reduced
bio-diversity of the seed we buy isn't political, if the quality (crops
designed for quantity and shelf life instead of nutrition) and quantity
(of nutrient poor processed foods) of our food isn't political, if the
information we receive about nutrition from our HMOs and government
isn't political, if the concentration of control over our food supplies
isn't political, if the production (supposedly regulated) and
distribution (to the Seven-Elevens of our inner cities) of our food
isn't political, if the treatment of consumers of food isn't cut from
the same whole cloth as is our military and social policies. Growing a
garden means that the food that is available commercially, isn't
acceptable to us (be it esthetics, cost, flavor, or health risks) and I
believe, that is a political statement.

This is a general newsgroup about the broad spectrum of nurturing
vegetative life, and like it or not, there is a political dimension to
it.

In a perfect world, this would not be the case, and we could spend our
time trying to perfect the perfect carrot or whatever. We try to monitor
ourselves, and ****ing and moaning about perceived excesses is your
right as part of the group, and I'm sure it will some have an effect.
Unfortunately, political policies do affect food production, including
gardening.

Billy look at this before it goes away. I think of this as profiting
by starvation.

"When crop prices are climbing, holding inventory for future sale can
yield higher profits than selling to meet current demand, for example.
Or if prices diverge in different parts of the world, inventory can be
shipped to the more profitable market."

"Mr. Duryea of the Ospraie fund dismissed the idea that financial
investors, with obligations to suppliers and customers of their
elevators and fertilizer services, would put their thumb on the
supply-demand scale by holding back inventory to move prices
artificially."




http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/05/bu...1&hp&oref=slog
in

Ps I saved the doc as an image.

.........................

I'll think I'll go outside for awhile....

Its A Beautiful Morning 2:31 Young Rascals Oldies MPEG
audio file

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
Neat place .. http://www.petersvalley.org/

In article
,
Bill wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Bill R wrote:

Bill wrote:
In article ,
Bill R wrote:


Bill wrote:

I voted for him in the primary but I
wonder why Hilary stalled.


crap deleted


Why do some of you people find it necessary to post off-topic political
CRAP in our garden newsgroup?

In case you don't know it there are dozens of newsgroups and hundreds
of
website where you can discuss politics.

PLEASE, let's keep the politics OUT of this newsgroup. Some of us do
gardening to escape (a little). And for the record, I AM interested in
politics, but NOT here.


Well I find gardener's to possess extremely grounded opinions. Don't
like what I write is why god created kill files.

Bill


Why should I need this create kill files because some inconsiderate
person like you decides to "make" this another political newsgroup?

Please have a little respect for the charter of this newsgroup and use
it for what it is for -- discussion of gardening.

As I said, there are MANY other places to discuss politics. PLEASE use
them for politics and let us discuss gardening HERE.

I need to ask if the price of food isn't political, if the reduced
bio-diversity of the seed we buy isn't political, if the quality (crops
designed for quantity and shelf life instead of nutrition) and quantity
(of nutrient poor processed foods) of our food isn't political, if the
information we receive about nutrition from our HMOs and government
isn't political, if the concentration of control over our food supplies
isn't political, if the production (supposedly regulated) and
distribution (to the Seven-Elevens of our inner cities) of our food
isn't political, if the treatment of consumers of food isn't cut from
the same whole cloth as is our military and social policies. Growing a
garden means that the food that is available commercially, isn't
acceptable to us (be it esthetics, cost, flavor, or health risks) and I
believe, that is a political statement.

This is a general newsgroup about the broad spectrum of nurturing
vegetative life, and like it or not, there is a political dimension to
it.

In a perfect world, this would not be the case, and we could spend our
time trying to perfect the perfect carrot or whatever. We try to monitor
ourselves, and ****ing and moaning about perceived excesses is your
right as part of the group, and I'm sure it will some have an effect.
Unfortunately, political policies do affect food production, including
gardening.

Billy look at this before it goes away. I think of this as profiting
by starvation.

"When crop prices are climbing, holding inventory for future sale can
yield higher profits than selling to meet current demand, for example.
Or if prices diverge in different parts of the world, inventory can be
shipped to the more profitable market."

"Mr. Duryea of the Ospraie fund dismissed the idea that financial
investors, with obligations to suppliers and customers of their
elevators and fertilizer services, would put their thumb on the
supply-demand scale by holding back inventory to move prices
artificially."




http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/05/bu...1&hp&oref=slog
in

Ps I saved the doc as an image.

........................

I'll think I'll go outside for awhile....

Its A Beautiful Morning 2:31 Young Rascals Oldies MPEG
audio file

This has already happened in India. I first heard of it from the
writings of Vandana Shiva.
http://www.alrc.net/doc/mainfile.php...statements/417
India represents a fifth of the worlds population and is said to be the
worlds largest democracy. Should we be surprised when this
business paradigm comes to America, given our present POLITICAL
atmosphere?
--

Billy
Bush Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

In article ,
enigma wrote:

Jangchub wrote in
:

People don't like the Clinton's, but the "Clinton's" are
not running for president, Hillary is. She won by popular
vote. Our voting system is archaic and needs a major
overhaul. I do not think Obama has what it takes to be the
president.

i didn't dislike Bill Clinton & i think the whole "scandal"
thing was stupid, but Hillary is NOT Bill and she's NOT
presidential material. i'm glad she finally woke up &
conceeded. she did not have the popular vote (unless you count
FL & MI, where no one else ran against her, & don't count the
caucus states) either. she also couldn't have possibly won
against McCain, & that is the important part. she may have had
a good Democratic base, but the independant & swing voters
disliked her. if you look at the polls, a Clinton vs McCain
race was always quite solidly won by McCain, whereas an
Obama/McCain match is much closer & leans to Obama.
if the Democrats had run Clinton, it would have allowed the
Dems to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...
i have no issues with Hillary as a person & i think she's a
decent senator for NY, but as president? no way! she's Bush jr
in a dress. delusions of power & all.
lee

Bill Clinton had his dark side to, just well hidden. Weapons for
Indonesia to use in East Timor, human rights abuses, and the beginnings
of mercenary troops jump to mind.
ttp://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=6e62024b
85b94292d71fffa81556cc93

http://www.hrw.org/wr2k1/usa/index.html
--

Billy
Bush Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

In article
,
Frank wrote:

On Jun 4, 6:37*pm, Bill wrote:
In article ,
*Bill R wrote:





Bill wrote:
*I voted for him in the primary but I
wonder why Hilary stalled.

crap deleted

Why do some of you people find it necessary to post off-topic political
CRAP in our garden newsgroup?

In case you don't know it there are dozens of newsgroups and hundreds of
website where you can discuss politics.

PLEASE, let's keep the politics OUT of this newsgroup. *Some of us do
gardening to escape (a little). *And for the record, I AM interested in
politics, but NOT here.

*Well I find gardener's to possess extremely grounded opinions. *Don't
like what I write is why god created kill files. *

*Bill

My read of your original post was that the bypass surgery may have
effected Bill Clinton's outlook. A second thought, having had similar
myself, is that it can effect mental processes due to potential for
ministrokes that go un detected and a person's mental outlook is also
effected. Could have effect on your gardening or your politics. See
no problem posting here. If I ever have a concern it is with Billy's
stupid signature ;(
Frank

What? You mean
--

Billy
Bush Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
enigma wrote:

Jangchub wrote in
:

People don't like the Clinton's, but the "Clinton's" are
not running for president, Hillary is. She won by popular
vote. Our voting system is archaic and needs a major
overhaul. I do not think Obama has what it takes to be the
president.

i didn't dislike Bill Clinton & i think the whole "scandal"
thing was stupid, but Hillary is NOT Bill and she's NOT
presidential material. i'm glad she finally woke up &
conceeded. she did not have the popular vote (unless you count
FL & MI, where no one else ran against her, & don't count the
caucus states) either. she also couldn't have possibly won
against McCain, & that is the important part. she may have had
a good Democratic base, but the independant & swing voters
disliked her. if you look at the polls, a Clinton vs McCain
race was always quite solidly won by McCain, whereas an
Obama/McCain match is much closer & leans to Obama.
if the Democrats had run Clinton, it would have allowed the
Dems to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...
i have no issues with Hillary as a person & i think she's a
decent senator for NY, but as president? no way! she's Bush jr
in a dress. delusions of power & all.
lee

Bill Clinton had his dark side to, just well hidden. Weapons for
Indonesia to use in East Timor, human rights abuses, and the beginnings
of mercenary troops jump to mind.
ttp://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=6e62024b
85b94292d71fffa81556cc93

http://www.hrw.org/wr2k1/usa/index.html

I just did not want two families running our country any more as 20
years is enough. Let someone else have a go at it. What is next
Chelsea and Jeb Bush's son )

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
Neat place .. http://www.petersvalley.org/