In article qdZEc.8841$MB3.3182@attbi_s04, John Watson wrote:


In other words, your bigoted representation is wrong, and you
cannot back it up.

You call me bigoted when you attempt to blame all Christian evil on the
Catholics.


Another lie.

You are a bible thumping Baptist, hater's of anyone that disagreed with your
putrid Protestant cult.


Another lie.


Won't work bilbo boy, shifting the burden to me isn't the way we play this
game.



"Shifting the burden?" You have made claims. It is not shifting the
burden to expect you to make some vague effort at backing them up.
Please provide one modern mainstream Protestant denomination that
inteprets the parable the way you claim. You cannot. You are lying.



In fact, asking you to prove your bizarre claims is exactly appropriate.

Nothing bizarre, it is recorded history, unlike the bible.



Good. Then you should have no problem providing one modern mainstream
Protestant denomination that has interprets the parable the way you
claim. Please feel free to provide that documentation. You cannot.
You are lying.

You are probably a Baptist with an agenda that includes bashing Catholics
and will probably try to blame them for all of the Christian atrocities.

A Christian is a Christian is a Christian, I don't care which cult they
identify with or endorse.

No, most bigots cannot see outside their stereotyped generalizations.
That's rather the point.

That sure is the point and as a Baptist you fit the description of a bigot.

Yes it is the point. And your determination to lie in order to support
your bigotry continues.

billo

In article RiZEc.9517$a24.3376@attbi_s03, John Watson wrote:



You shouldn't be so hard on John. He can't seem to help his
narrow-mindedness.

He was explaining your narrow-mindedness, not mind. G



You are the one making bigoted generalizations, not me.



The cockiness comes from the fact that this is a biblical country, no one
else is even allowed into federal power, so we are literally enveloped in
"confirmation."


No, the "cockiness" comes from knowing that John is lying, and knowing
that it is easy to show the lie.

Show me where I am lying, you can't, you and your Baptist agenda are both
bullshit! G


Easy. You have made a specific claim about how modern Christians interpret
a parable. I have challenged you to back up that claim. You cannot, and
you know you cannot, and you know that you are not telling the truth. You
are lying.

Of course, you could easily disprove me by providing an example of a mainstream
modern Christian denomination that interprets the parable the way you claim.

Please provide an example of a mainstream Baptist denomination that does this:
Please provide an example of a mainstream Methodist denomination that does this:
Please provide an example of a mainstream Anglican denomination that does this:
Please provide an example of a mainstream Presbyterian denomination that does this:
Please provide an example of a mainstream Lutheran denomination that does this:

You cannot. You know you cannot. You are lying.




But, hey, if you want to show he
is telling the truth, please feel free to provide the examples supporting
his claim:

Hahaha, bilbo boy not wants to shift the burden of proof to Blue!

Headline: He/she is not going to play your game of shift the burden either!



Indeed. Neither of you can document your bigoted lies -- because they
are lies.


billo

"John Watson" wrote in message
news:9KOEc.7444$MB3.6643@attbi_s04...

"Blue" wrote in message
...
You are correct in that both Washington and Jefferson were not bible
believers. However both made many references to "god" - Washington even
regularly attended church and associated with clerics - and that was
enough to baffle the citizens into believing they were bible believers.
Yes, other "founding fathers" were also non -believers (Franklin and
Paine)
but they did not hold national elected office. Paine went so far as to
ridicule the bible yet believe in "god" and was widely referred to even
in
this day as an infidel.

I think that they both were fairly open about their being Deists.


The fact is that this government has never in our entire history had a
member of the federal government who was not a "believer" in biblical
mythology or a liar who said or implied (as above) that he was . That
makes America a de-facto theocracy.

I was a member of the federal government for many years, or do you mean an
elected official?

Yes. It is all about shepherding - living well without working - which is
the paradigm of all cleric-driven mythologies - and their motivating
force.

The shepherd has two problems - how to increase his herd and how to limit
straying. The shepherd just doesn't care about the mindset of an individual
sheep as long as that sheep doesn't have enough political power to give him
either one of those problems. If the sheep attempts to gain adherents the
shepherd will be watching intently and pointing him out to his dogs. That
is exactly what elected officials do full time, i.e., try to get reelected
by winning friends and influencing people. Thus non-believers simply cannot
be permitted to hold elected office ( or appointment to the sureme court),
they are just too dangerous to the brotherhood of biblical clerics as they
are a threat to their livelihood.

In article , Blue wrote:


Yes. It is all about shepherding - living well without working - which is
the paradigm of all cleric-driven mythologies - and their motivating
force.


Spoken like someone who has never seen a devout pastor at work.


billo

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article RiZEc.9517$a24.3376@attbi_s03, John Watson
wrote:



You shouldn't be so hard on John. He can't seem to help his
narrow-mindedness.

He was explaining your narrow-mindedness, not mind. G


You are the one making bigoted generalizations, not me.

I made no bigoted generalizations, you have.

The cockiness comes from the fact that this is a biblical country, no
one
else is even allowed into federal power, so we are literally enveloped
in
"confirmation."


No, the "cockiness" comes from knowing that John is lying, and knowing
that it is easy to show the lie.

Show me where I am lying, you can't, you and your Baptist agenda are both
bullshit! G

Easy. You have made a specific claim about how modern Christians
interpret
a parable. I have challenged you to back up that claim. You cannot, and
you know you cannot, and you know that you are not telling the truth. You
are lying.

What's all this modern Christian crap, I know you just can't wait to blame
the Catholics for everything, so I am going to give you the opportunity.

You are spinning a wicked web of deceit, try to be more honest.

Of course, you could easily disprove me by providing an example of a
mainstream
modern Christian denomination that interprets the parable the way you
claim.

I am not going to play your game of shifting the burden of proof.

You cannot. You know you cannot. You are lying.

I merely quoted the Bible and then showed how the words so inflamed the
Christians they killed millions of people because of it.

All recorded history, unlike the bible.

In AD476, warriors attacked the city of Rome and ended the more than 800
years of glory for the "eternal city." Historians mark the fall of Rome as
the end of ancient history. The next one thousand years were called the
Middle Ages. The Latin term for Middle Ages is "medieval."
The early Middle Ages are often called the "Dark Ages" because the
great civilizations of Greece and Rome had fallen. Life in Europe during the
Middle Ages was very hard. Very few people could read or write and nobody
expected conditions to improve. The only hope for most people during the
Middle Ages was their strong belief in Christianity, and the hope that life
in heaven would be better than life on earth.

The Dark Ages were anything but dark in other parts of the world. The
Muslims in the Middle East and North Africa studied and improved on the
works of the ancient Greeks while civilization flourished in sub-Saharan
Africa, China, India, and the Americas, while the Christians plotted the
murder of millions.

An order comes out of the Vatican, authorising the commencement of an
Inquisition to re-establish the orthodoxy of the faith. The charge of heresy
soon becomes entangled with the charge of witchcraft, and in this form took
until the seventeenth century to die away.

1307 - 1321

La Comedia, or The Divine Comedy as it came to be known, of Dante Alighieri
is written in Italy. This semi-autobiographical poem sets forth one of the
most influential descriptions of Hell in the literature, though Dante's vast
and intricate plan has, in the public eye, been superseded by Milton's
vision . Even less well-known are the two sections after Inferno that
complete the poem, Purgatorio and Paradiso.

Nothing ere I was made was made to be
Save things eterne, and I eterne abide;
Lay down all hope, you that go in by me.
-- trans. Dorothy L Sayers
1456
Vladislav Basarab of Transylvania gains the crown of Wallacia for the first
time (until 1462, and again briefly in 1468). From his father he earned the
nickname 'Dracula', son of the Dragon, but he earned for himself the name
Vlad the Impaler, for his favourite method of execution. Despite a large
amount of slander by his political opponents, many of the tales of his
cruelty were true (he is said to have killed over 40,000 people in his
reign). He was also a staunch defender of Christendom from the Turkish
threat.

1470 - 1516
The Dutch artist Hieronymous Bosch in this period produced paintings of
religious theme and nightmarish impact -- the best known is The Garden of
Earthly Delights. They came to the attention of the Inquisition after his
death, but powerful patrons protected the collection.

1485
The first edition Danse Macabre is published in Paris by Guyot Marchant. The
verses and illustrations are taken from the murals adorning the Cemetery of
the Innocents. The first set of couplets, by an unknown author, deal with
death coming to the forty stations of men. The matching verses for women are
credited to Martial d'Auvergne.

1486
The first edition of the Malleus Maleficarum is produced in Germany by the
Dominican inquisitors Hienrich Institoris (aka Henry Kramer) and Jakob
Sprenger. Literally 'the Hammer of Witches', it codified the form of belief
in witchcraft that spread, through fourteen editions by 1520, throughout
Europe. It contributed enormously to the witch craze of the Sixteenth and
Seventeenth centuries in which thousands of people were tortured and killed.

1492

The America's native people tortured and killed so that Christians may steal
their gold and land. Mass Genocide of Jesus' enemies.

1667
Paradise Lost is John Milton's epic poem of the fall from Heaven, the
English poet dictating his work to his daughters after being left blind in
1652. A strict Puritan, Milton still questioned Christian orthodoxy, and it
is his depiction of Satan, his realms and his struggle against omnipotence
that give the poem its power. Paradise was regained in 1671.

1692
Not the largest or most gruesome of the witch trials (Bamberg, Germany,
1623-1633 comes to mind), the events in Salem, Massachusetts are definitely
the most famous. A group of young girls began to claim local women were
bewitching them. The first arrest was a slave Tituba who provided all the
details that could be wished to capture the imagination. Prominent
theologians such as Cotton Mather provided legitimisation, and things ran on
from there.

John

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article qdZEc.8841$MB3.3182@attbi_s04, John Watson
wrote:


In other words, your bigoted representation is wrong, and you
cannot back it up.

You call me bigoted when you attempt to blame all Christian evil on the
Catholics.

Another lie.

Oh yeah, tell me about the "Spanish Inquisition".

You are a bible thumping Baptist, hater's of anyone that disagreed with
your
putrid Protestant cult.

Another lie.

Oh yeah.

Here Jesus vows to build his church and makes Peter the head of it. And
states that "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
He gives Peter the authority and power to found the Church by letting Peter
make the laws for the church and decide on who will go to Heaven.
He give Peter complete authority by stating: "And I will give unto thee the
keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall
be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed
in heaven.

Peter founds the Catholic church. This is the only church authorized
directly by Jesus.
All Protestant cults are not of Jesus.

Matthew 16:
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias;
and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the
living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona:
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is
in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I
will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and
whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever
thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was
Jesus the Christ.

The Protestants hate the above passage because they cannot explain it away.
G

That sure is the point and as a Baptist you fit the description of a
bigot.

Yes it is the point. And your determination to lie in order to support
your bigotry continues.

I tell no lies, I only quote the bible, if the bible lies, so be it! G

John

In article pm5Fc.11745$Oq2.3362@attbi_s52, John Watson wrote:


Of course, you could easily disprove me by providing an example of a
mainstream
modern Christian denomination that interprets the parable the way you
claim.

I am not going to play your game of shifting the burden of proof.


Of course. Your bigoted claims are baseless, and you cannot back them
up.

billo

In article NF5Fc.11986$7t3.9782@attbi_s51, John Watson wrote:

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article qdZEc.8841$MB3.3182@attbi_s04, John Watson
wrote:


In other words, your bigoted representation is wrong, and you
cannot back it up.

You call me bigoted when you attempt to blame all Christian evil on the
Catholics.

Another lie.

Oh yeah, tell me about the "Spanish Inquisition".


I did not make the claim you made. Period.


You are a bible thumping Baptist, hater's of anyone that disagreed with
your
putrid Protestant cult.

Another lie.

Oh yeah.


Yes. And none of your following verbiage addresses it.

billo

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 16:04:35 -0700, "Blue" opined:

The shepherd has two problems - how to increase his herd and how to limit
straying. The shepherd just doesn't care about the mindset of an individual
sheep as long as that sheep doesn't have enough political power to give him
either one of those problems. If the sheep attempts to gain adherents the
shepherd will be watching intently and pointing him out to his dogs. That
is exactly what elected officials do full time, i.e., try to get reelected
by winning friends and influencing people. Thus non-believers simply cannot
be permitted to hold elected office ( or appointment to the sureme court),
they are just too dangerous to the brotherhood of biblical clerics as they
are a threat to their livelihood.


,,,and then along came Michael, woo ooo ooo
Michael Moore the angel, woo ooo ooo...


Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article pm5Fc.11745$Oq2.3362@attbi_s52, John Watson
wrote:


Of course. Your bigoted claims are baseless, and you cannot back them
up.

Bigoted claims, eh? The poor little Christians are being picked on again,
poor babies.

Is that the best that you can come up with?

Noticed that you did a lot of snipping again, being dishonest again, eh?

An interviewer asked Ann Druyan (Carl Sagan's wife), "Didn't [Sagan] want to
believe?"
She responded,
"He didn't want to believe. He wanted to know."
"Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which
deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense."

"I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some
thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I
want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural
traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is
more than wishful thinking."

"If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the
reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our
conceits?"

"When you make the finding yourself--even if you're the last person on Earth
to see the light--you never forget it."

"Our species needs, and deserves, a citizenry with minds wide awake and a
basic understanding of how the world works."

"The world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is
no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little
good evidence. Far better, it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look
Death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent
opportunity that life provides." (Billions and Billions p. 215)

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in
delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

"There are many hypotheses in science which are wrong. That's perfectly all
right; they're the aperture to finding out what's right. Science is a
self-correcting process. To be accepted, new ideas must survive the most
rigorous standards of evidence and scrutiny." COSMOS 13 part television
series

-- Carl Sagan (most from "The Demon-Haunted World")


John

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article NF5Fc.11986$7t3.9782@attbi_s51, John Watson
wrote:

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article qdZEc.8841$MB3.3182@attbi_s04, John Watson
wrote:


Another lie.

Oh yeah, tell me about the "Spanish Inquisition".

Tell us about the "Spanish Inquistion"!

I did not make the claim you made. Period.

Tell us about the "Crusades"!

Yes. And none of your following verbiage addresses it.

I quote history and the bible, your denial proves your false claim.

"I believe in treating others as I want to be treated--but I certainly don't
believe in turning the other cheek and the truth is that I never knew any
Christians who did either."
-- James Hervey Johnson

"The Bible is a wonderful source of inspiration for those who don't
understand it."
-- George Santayana


John