In article ,
Vox Humana wrote:


How do you account for so many denominations each having so large a
difference with fellow Christians that they can't abide belonging to the
same organization?


There are a number of reasons. The first is because people are
different and their needs are different. There was a good book written
some years ago by Bruce Larson, in which he illustrated it with a
parable. It went something like this (I am paraphrasing from a
years-old memory):

There was once a man who had suffered many reversals in his life.
He had tried and failed a multiple businesses. His car had just
been reposessed. He had an addictive personality and in spite of
his best efforts, could not shake many self-destructive habits. He
had failed in love. He had failed so many times, he took his
failure for granted. He saw himself as a failure and despised what
he saw in the mirror.

There was another man in the same town who had a golden touch. He
was a millionaire. Important people came to him for advice. He
had a wonderful marriage and his kids were exemplary. He worked
out and looked good. He felt great about himself. There were also
two churches in the area. The first, Our Lady of Eternal
Redemption, focused on the love and acceptance of Jesus Christ. It
told about how that every day was a new day in Christ, that all the
sins and failures of yesterday were forgiven, and that, in Christ,
all things are possible.

The second, The Church of Eternal Repentance, focused on the fallen
nature of man and the offer of redemption through repentance and
humility. It preached about how that, no matter how good we think
we are, as long as another person is in need we have not done what
we can. It focused on the fact that we are all sinners and need
the forgiveness of Christ. It told the story of the young rich man
(Matt 19:16) who followed all the laws but walked away from Jesus
when he was told to sell his posessions and give it to the poor.

Larson points out that while both of them teach the truth, the
concentration if very different. It would be a good thing for the
first man to enter the first church and the second to enter the second,
and possibly a very bad thing for the opposite to occur. In the
best case, the needs of each would be met -- the man in trouble would
be given encouragment and validation, and the man with it all would
be taught humility. In the worst case, the man in trouble would
focus on his failings and might have a hard time recognizing the
value of his redemption,a nd the man with it all would see his
wealth as validation.


The second is that there is great ambiguity in most aspects of
Christianity. Jesus noted that there were really only two rules to
being a Christian: loving God above all else, and loving your neighbor
as yourself. Everything else falls from those two. Most of the things
that people think of when they think of Christian orthodoxy are not
things that Jesus particularly cared about.

Virtually every variant on the things that Christ didn't deal with has
been proposed. That Christ was both human and God, that He was not
human at all, that he was God but was an illusion, that He was human
and not God. The orthodox trinitarial belief was established in the
face of Christians who believed in the trinity, who believed in a
pantheon of dieties, who believed that Jesus and God were enemies,
etc. -- all of which, in fact, were relatively consistent with the
fundamental teachings of Christ. Christ was concerned with how we
lived our lives and with our relationship with a diety we could not
comprehend. He was not all that concerned with which incorrect
comprehension we chose.

What this means is that most decisions that Christians have to make
about life are thus pretty much judgement calls. Generations of
theologians and demagogues have tried replaced the Pharisees in trying
to write laws for every little contingency, and its not surprising that
they differ in their extrapolations.

This is compounded by the fact that Christianity is focused on belief
(orthodoxy) rather than practice (orthopraxy). This is in contrast to
Judiasm and Islam, where what you *do* is as or more important than
what you *believe.* The belief system of Judiasm and Islam is pretty
simple; it's the practice that gets the textual real estate. In
Christianity, it's the opposite. Thus, not only is it *belief*
that is key, but most of it is up in the air.

Even in the early church, this was a problem. Paul, following a
vision, brought a radical interpretation of Christianity into
the forefront. Paul claimed authority based on his vision, his
determination and suffering, and the results of his work. On the
basis of this personal authority he tosses Jewish law out the
window. What most Christians don't read was the response of
the followers of Peter in the Pseudo-Clementine Homilies who
believed that Christianity should essentially remain a form
of Judiasm:

And if our Jesus appeared to you also and became known in a vision
and met you as angry with an enemy, yet he has spoken only through
visions and dreams or through external revelations. But can anyone
be made competent to teach through a vision? And if your opinion on
that is possible, why then did our teacher spend a whole year with
us wh were awake? How can we believe you even if he appeared to
you? ... But if you were visited by him for the space of an hour
and were instructed by him and thereby have become an apostle, then
proclaim his words, expound what he has taught, be a friend to his
apostles and do not contend with me, who am his confidant; for you
have in hostility withstood me, who am a firm rock, the foundation
stone of the Church (Homilies 17.19).

All may not have been quite as fluffy bunnies and candy cane among the
Apostles as a superficial reading of Acts would imply.

Paul even ran into this problem of personal interpretation when dealing
with the Corinthians. He first wrote to them that to a person at one
with Christ, *all* things are permitted. He meant, of course, that if
a person were in touch with Christ then one would only *want* to do the
right thing -- all things are lawful but not all things are "expedient"
or "beneficial". Of course, many Pauline Christians took this to mean
that anything goes, and Paul then had to write letters almost
retracting this statement and giving lists of permitted and not
permitted.


Third, because Christianity allows broad variation in faith and
practice in order to meet individual needs, it's not surprising
that this leads to exploitation of that freedom. Jesus noted that
the things that limited faith in different people are different ("If your
eye offends you, pluck it out"), and that the practice demands
of faith for one person would not be that of another. Some people
have problems with sex. Other people have problems with food.
Other people have problems with being ostentatious. And each
support group essentially forms a denomination. Some, like the
Shakers, are self-limiting. Others are not.

Fourth, Christianity is a faith that has authority based in three basic
things: the Bible, personal revelation, and tradition. Different
denominations place different emphasis on each source of authority.
Fundamentalists cling to the Bible and essentially ignore the other
two. Mystics focus on personal revelation and use the other two as
commentary and guide for the mystical experience. My pastor likes to
quote a Sufi he once knew who told him about his training in the Holy
Koran. This Sufi trained for months and was not *allowed* to read the
Holy Koran. Finally he went to his master and asked why, as a Moslem,
he was not allowed to read the Holy Koran. The master replied "First
find God. Then He will give you the insight necessary to understand
the Holy Koran." This is the basic attitude of mystics, whether they
be Christian, Moslem, or whatever. It's why a Buddhist is willing to
write the introduction to the mystical writings of the Catholic monk
Thomas Merton. And it is an attitude opposite to that of
fundamentalists who believe that reading the Book is the *way* to find
God. Finally, traditionalists focus on continuity between their beliefs
and those of the early fathers who were closest to Jesus Himself. Each
of these different approaches result in a different flavor of faith,
and all are Christian.


billo

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Vox Humana wrote:


How do you account for so many denominations each having so large a
difference with fellow Christians that they can't abide belonging to the
same organization?


The second is that there is great ambiguity in most aspects of
Christianity. Jesus noted that there were really only two rules to
being a Christian: loving God above all else, and loving your neighbor
as yourself.

Yeah right!

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus instructed his followers (Matthew 5:43)

"Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, and do good to those who hate

you." This might have been a fine lesson if Jesus himself lived up to it.

But when it came to his own enemies, Jesus declared (Luke 19:27), "Take my

enemies, who would not have me rule over them, bring them here, and kill

them before me."


Everything else falls from those two. Most of the things
that people think of when they think of Christian orthodoxy are not
things that Jesus particularly cared about.

Godfrey's conquest of Jerusalem?known as the "First Crusade:"

At the Council of Clermont in 1095 CE, Pope Urban II proclaimed the First
Crusade (1095-1099); primarily to provide Christian pilgrims' access to
Jerusalem. Godfrey of Bouillon (c1060-1100) led the army that felled
Jerusalem in 1099 CE and founded the Christian kingdom of Palestine. There
are many recorded eye-witness accounts of the carnage in Jerusalem. Let us
read just a little on how Christianity implemented Jesus' dictates as set
forth in Luke 19 (something your clergy and Sunday school teachers never
told you).

From Gesta Francorum (The Deeds of the Franks):

"The defenders fled along the walls and through the city, and our men
pursued them killing and cutting them down as far as Solomon's Temple, where
there was such a massacre that our men were wading ankle deep in blood ...
Then the crusaders rushed around the whole city, seizing gold and silver,
horses and mules, and looting the housing that were full of costly things.
Then, rejoicing and weeping from excess of happiness, they all came to
worship and give thanks at the sepulchre of our saviour Jesus. Next morning,
they went cautiously up the temple roof and attacked the Saracens, both men
and women [who had taken refuge there], cutting off their heads with drawn
swords ... Our leaders then gave orders that all the Saracen corpses should
be thrown outside the city because of the stench, for almost the whole city
was full of dead bodies ... such a slaughter of pagans had never been seen
or heard of, for they were burned in pyres like pyramids, and none save God
alone knows how many they were."

Other religious nonsense snipped...



John

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 21:15:53 GMT, "Vox Humana" opined:


How do you account for so many denominations each having so large a
difference with fellow Christians that they can't abide belonging to the
same organization?


This is a true statement. I was walking the neighborhood for our bi-annual food
drive. I see a man on the block I don't know and walk up to him to hand him the
flyer with the info on it. He asks me what church this is with. I say, no
church, it's the city food drive for their food pantry. It's all legit. He
asks where we "fellowship." That must be a buzz word Christians use for what
church you attend. We say, we are Buddhist practitioners, our garden is the
church. He then has the audacity to say, and I quote, "So now you know the big
lie, would you like to know the truth?" Was that a question or an invitation, I
asked. His response was "You are lost and I can save you." I turned away and
continued walking.

So, the thing is, there are many Christians who are full of shit. This one in
particular was the pastor of his church. He never did give a can of food to our
drive. When he passes I wave and he turns the other way. Yeah, I'm the demon
who is a Buddhist practitioner. Oh well. In the name of Jesus.

Victoria


Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

In article 3KJDc.106741$Hg2.55952@attbi_s04,
John Watson wrote:

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Vox Humana wrote:


How do you account for so many denominations each having so large a
difference with fellow Christians that they can't abide belonging to the
same organization?


The second is that there is great ambiguity in most aspects of
Christianity. Jesus noted that there were really only two rules to
being a Christian: loving God above all else, and loving your neighbor
as yourself.

Yeah right!

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus instructed his followers (Matthew 5:43)

"Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, and do good to those who hate

you." This might have been a fine lesson if Jesus himself lived up to it.

But when it came to his own enemies, Jesus declared (Luke 19:27), "Take my

enemies, who would not have me rule over them, bring them here, and kill

them before me."



Ah, I see. You do not comprehend what a parable is. You see, a
parable is when someone tells a fictional story in order to illustrate
a point. In parables, sometimes magic happens, sometimes people can
fly, sometimes things that just don't make sense in a nonfictional
world abound. That's because the story is not supposed to be taken
literally, but instead illustrates a point. In the case of the parable
Luke, contrary to your assertion, Jesus was not giving instruction to
kill; he was telling a story about a stern master. Here's a hint.
When Jesus starts a story with "A man of noble birth went to a distant
country to have himself appointed king and then to return. So he called
ten of his servants and gave them ten minas..." that didn't *really*
happen see. It's a *parable.*


Everything else falls from those two. Most of the things
that people think of when they think of Christian orthodoxy are not
things that Jesus particularly cared about.

Godfrey's conquest of Jerusalem?known as the "First Crusade:"

At the Council of Clermont in 1095 CE, Pope Urban II

Oddly enough, in spite of your contention, Pope Urban II is
not Jesus Christ. Reread my statement.


Other religious nonsense snipped...


And what is your point? That cruel people will do cruel things
under any given flag? Certainly. Do you want a litany of things
done under the flag of atheism and anti-Christian activism? Are
you going to accept the blame for the murder of kulaks under Stalin,
the killing fields of Cambodia, etc. Certainly in the past couple
hundred years, millions more people have been murdered in the name
of atheism than in the name of any deist religion.

In article ,
escapee wrote:

So, the thing is, there are many Christians who are full of shit.

And there are many Buddhists who are full of shit.
And there are many Moslems who are full of shit.
And there are many Jews who are full of shit.
And there are many atheists who are full of shit.
And there are many pagans who are full of shit.
And there are many Hindus who are full of shit.
And there are many Zoroastrians who are full of shit.

Oh well. In the name of Jesus.

And choosing one such of any these religions as characterizing
the faith as a whole is simple bigotry. You are, in your
condemnation of him, no different than the man you condemn.

billo

"escapee" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 21:15:53 GMT, "Vox Humana"
opined:


How do you account for so many denominations each having so large a
difference with fellow Christians that they can't abide belonging to the
same organization?


This is a true statement. I was walking the neighborhood for our
bi-annual food
drive. I see a man on the block I don't know and walk up to him to hand
him the
flyer with the info on it. He asks me what church this is with. I say, no
church, it's the city food drive for their food pantry. It's all legit.
He
asks where we "fellowship." That must be a buzz word Christians use for
what
church you attend. We say, we are Buddhist practitioners, our garden is
the
church. He then has the audacity to say, and I quote, "So now you know
the big
lie, would you like to know the truth?" Was that a question or an
invitation, I
asked. His response was "You are lost and I can save you." I turned away
and
continued walking.

A couple of years ago some Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door early on a
Saturday morning. The spokesperson of the group asked, "Do you have time to
be saved from eternal damnation?" I thought for a minute and replied, "No,
I'm too busy today. Maybe some other time." She looked stunned and in a
sarcastic tone she said "You're too busy to be saved." I replied, "Yes."
She left a Watch Tower and moved on to her next victim. Now when I see them
coming (they always come in groups of a couple women and a man. The women
always have huge purses.) I put our big male shar pei on the porch and close
the door. They have never dared open the gate on the porch. I guess saving
people from eternal damnation isn't worth the bother sometimes.

"John Watson" wrote in message news:I3JDc.191091$Ly.10437@attbi_s01...
"Not-easily-duped" wrote in message
om...
"John Watson" wrote in message
news:zYqDc.115711$eu.76391@attbi_s02...
"Roger Pearse" wrote in message
om...
"'enry VIII" wrote in message
news:NmtBc.87317$0y.76847@attbi_s03...
"John A. Keslick, Jr." wrote in message
...
The bible is fiction, a myth, baloney, made up by sheephearders 2000
years
ago, get over it and get a life!

"The central tenets of Christianity is that Jesus of Nazareth was the
son
of
god, one part of a divine trinity: born of a virgin, he preached to
the
masses, suffered, died on the cross for the sins of man and rose from
the
dead on the third day. This, along with the belief that his birth was
preceded by miraculous events, political intrigue and heralded by
wise-men
form the foundation of the Christian faith. However Christianity is
either
peppered with themes coincidentally similar to much older Eastern
religions,
or these similarities are proof positive that church founders
plagiarized
other faiths: "

This is intellectually illiterate.

But true!

You don't know what truth is then. You must be a jerk!

I may be a jerk but I do know what the truth is and it sure isn't some bible
thumper calling on some Santa Claus like bible character to destroy anyone
that doesn't believe the same bullshit as he does. G

And you are an Asshole! VBG

Then again you must be an asshole for not knowing what asshole means.




John


John

Vox Humana wrote:



A couple of years ago some Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door early on a
Saturday morning. The spokesperson of the group asked, "Do you have time to
be saved from eternal damnation?" I thought for a minute and replied, "No,
I'm too busy today. Maybe some other time." She looked stunned and in a
sarcastic tone she said "You're too busy to be saved." I replied, "Yes."
She left a Watch Tower and moved on to her next victim. Now when I see them
coming (they always come in groups of a couple women and a man. The women
always have huge purses.) I put our big male shar pei on the porch and close
the door. They have never dared open the gate on the porch. I guess saving
people from eternal damnation isn't worth the bother sometimes.


I thought liberals were compassionate and understanding of those unlike
themselves.

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:39:38 -0400, Barfin' Bob opined:


I thought liberals were compassionate and understanding of those unlike
themselves.

How come you didn't comment on my experience with the Christian pastor? I
thought I was very compassionate to him. I walked away smiling with my husband
and we wave when he passes. He, on the other hand, does not wave back merely
because we are not Christians and I wave a flag of Tibet under the American
flag on my pole. Oh well. So much for your theory.


Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"escapee" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 21:15:53 GMT, "Vox Humana"
opined:


How do you account for so many denominations each having so large a
difference with fellow Christians that they can't abide belonging to
the
same organization?


This is a true statement. I was walking the neighborhood for our
bi-annual food
drive. I see a man on the block I don't know and walk up to him to hand
him the
flyer with the info on it. He asks me what church this is with. I say,
no
church, it's the city food drive for their food pantry. It's all legit.
He
asks where we "fellowship." That must be a buzz word Christians use for
what
church you attend. We say, we are Buddhist practitioners, our garden is
the
church. He then has the audacity to say, and I quote, "So now you know
the big
lie, would you like to know the truth?" Was that a question or an
invitation, I
asked. His response was "You are lost and I can save you." I turned
away
and
continued walking.

A couple of years ago some Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door early on
a
Saturday morning. The spokesperson of the group asked, "Do you have time
to
be saved from eternal damnation?" I thought for a minute and replied,
"No,
I'm too busy today. Maybe some other time." She looked stunned and in a
sarcastic tone she said "You're too busy to be saved." I replied, "Yes."
She left a Watch Tower and moved on to her next victim. Now when I see
them
coming (they always come in groups of a couple women and a man. The women
always have huge purses.) I put our big male shar pei on the porch and
close
the door. They have never dared open the gate on the porch. I guess
saving
people from eternal damnation isn't worth the bother sometimes.

The Jehovah's Witnesses on my side of town are only interested in Spanish
speaking converts. Whenever they rattle the gate, they always ask if any
Spanish speakers are in the house. I always respond, in Spanish, that no
Spanish speakers live here. They say thanks and go away. Works every
time...... }:-)

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"escapee" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 21:15:53 GMT, "Vox Humana"
opined:


How do you account for so many denominations each having so large a
difference with fellow Christians that they can't abide belonging to
the
same organization?


This is a true statement. I was walking the neighborhood for our
bi-annual food
drive. I see a man on the block I don't know and walk up to him to
hand
him the
flyer with the info on it. He asks me what church this is with. I
say,
no
church, it's the city food drive for their food pantry. It's all
legit.
He
asks where we "fellowship." That must be a buzz word Christians use
for
what
church you attend. We say, we are Buddhist practitioners, our garden
is
the
church. He then has the audacity to say, and I quote, "So now you
know
the big
lie, would you like to know the truth?" Was that a question or an
invitation, I
asked. His response was "You are lost and I can save you." I turned
away
and
continued walking.

A couple of years ago some Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door early
on
a
Saturday morning. The spokesperson of the group asked, "Do you have
time
to
be saved from eternal damnation?" I thought for a minute and replied,
"No,
I'm too busy today. Maybe some other time." She looked stunned and in
a
sarcastic tone she said "You're too busy to be saved." I replied,
"Yes."
She left a Watch Tower and moved on to her next victim. Now when I see
them
coming (they always come in groups of a couple women and a man. The
women
always have huge purses.) I put our big male shar pei on the porch and
close
the door. They have never dared open the gate on the porch. I guess
saving
people from eternal damnation isn't worth the bother sometimes.

The Jehovah's Witnesses on my side of town are only interested in
Spanish
speaking converts. Whenever they rattle the gate, they always ask if any
Spanish speakers are in the house. I always respond, in Spanish, that no
Spanish speakers live here. They say thanks and go away. Works every
time...... }:-)

I don't know why they are so persistent. As I understand it, they believe
that only 400,000 people will make it to heaven. Surely all the spots are
filled already.

In article ,
escapee wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:39:38 -0400, Barfin' Bob opined:


I thought liberals were compassionate and understanding of those unlike
themselves.

How come you didn't comment on my experience with the Christian pastor? I
thought I was very compassionate to him. I walked away smiling with my husband
and we wave when he passes. He, on the other hand, does not wave back merely
because we are not Christians and I wave a flag of Tibet under the American
flag on my pole. Oh well. So much for your theory.



Indeed. He is so narrow-minded -- he believes that he is right and you
are wrong, when you, being open-minded, are convinced that he is
wrong and you are right. The difference is obvious. Oh well. So
much for your theory.

billO

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

snip
A couple of years ago some Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door
early
on
a
Saturday morning. The spokesperson of the group asked, "Do you have
time
to
be saved from eternal damnation?" I thought for a minute and replied,
"No,
I'm too busy today. Maybe some other time." She looked stunned and
in
a
sarcastic tone she said "You're too busy to be saved." I replied,
"Yes."
She left a Watch Tower and moved on to her next victim. Now when I
see
them
coming (they always come in groups of a couple women and a man. The
women
always have huge purses.) I put our big male shar pei on the porch and
close
the door. They have never dared open the gate on the porch. I guess
saving
people from eternal damnation isn't worth the bother sometimes.

The Jehovah's Witnesses on my side of town are only interested in
Spanish
speaking converts. Whenever they rattle the gate, they always ask if any
Spanish speakers are in the house. I always respond, in Spanish, that no
Spanish speakers live here. They say thanks and go away. Works every
time...... }:-)

I don't know why they are so persistent. As I understand it, they believe
that only 400,000 people will make it to heaven. Surely all the spots are
filled already.

Maybe those who get the most converts get to move up on the waiting
list..... I'm happy that no gringos need apply from my neighbourhood......
When I was about 5 years old, a JW came to the door and wanted a donation
for a copy of the Watchtower. One of the acceptable items was a bar of soap.
When my mother found out what happened, she grabbed me and caught up with
the con artists around the corner. My normally mild-mannered mother reamed
them good for taking advantage of a little boy. That has always stuck with
me.........

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article ,
escapee wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:39:38 -0400, Barfin' Bob
opined:


I thought liberals were compassionate and understanding of those unlike
themselves.

How come you didn't comment on my experience with the Christian pastor?
I
thought I was very compassionate to him. I walked away smiling with my
husband
and we wave when he passes. He, on the other hand, does not wave back
merely
because we are not Christians and I wave a flag of Tibet under the
American
flag on my pole. Oh well. So much for your theory.



Indeed. He is so narrow-minded -- he believes that he is right and you
are wrong, when you, being open-minded, are convinced that he is
wrong and you are right. The difference is obvious. Oh well. So
much for your theory.

I understand that dogs aren't allowed in heaven. When I die, I want to go
where they go.........

"Dog is my co-pilot"

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article 3KJDc.106741$Hg2.55952@attbi_s04,
John Watson wrote:

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Vox Humana wrote:


How do you account for so many denominations each having so large a
difference with fellow Christians that they can't abide belonging to the
same organization?


The second is that there is great ambiguity in most aspects of
Christianity. Jesus noted that there were really only two rules to
being a Christian: loving God above all else, and loving your neighbor
as yourself.

Yeah right!

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus instructed his followers (Matthew 5:43)

"Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, and do good to those who
hate

you." This might have been a fine lesson if Jesus himself lived up to it.

But when it came to his own enemies, Jesus declared (Luke 19:27), "Take my

enemies, who would not have me rule over them, bring them here, and kill

them before me."



Ah, I see. You do not comprehend what a parable is. You see, a
parable is when someone tells a fictional story in order to illustrate
a point.

Oh, I see, the bible only means what it says when probably interperted by a
Christian! Yeah right!

Guess that's why there is the Catholic Church and 33,000 Protestant cults,
eh?

Did you get everything that you wanted? Or are you going to tell us that it
really doesn't mean what it says?

John 14:13,14: "Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also
do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these,
because I am going to the Father. I will do whatever you ask in my name, so
that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If in my name you ask me for
anything, I will do it."

And I'm sure that you will find the this also doesn't mean what it states:



Luke 10:19: "See, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and
scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing will hurt you."

Mark 16:17,18: "And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using
my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will
pick up snakes in their hands, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will
not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover"

LOL

JOHN







In parables, sometimes magic happens, sometimes people can
fly, sometimes things that just don't make sense in a nonfictional
world abound. That's because the story is not supposed to be taken
literally, but instead illustrates a point. In the case of the parable
Luke, contrary to your assertion, Jesus was not giving instruction to
kill; he was telling a story about a stern master. Here's a hint.
When Jesus starts a story with "A man of noble birth went to a distant
country to have himself appointed king and then to return. So he called
ten of his servants and gave them ten minas..." that didn't *really*
happen see. It's a *parable.*


Everything else falls from those two. Most of the things
that people think of when they think of Christian orthodoxy are not
things that Jesus particularly cared about.

Godfrey's conquest of Jerusalem?known as the "First Crusade:"

At the Council of Clermont in 1095 CE, Pope Urban II

Oddly enough, in spite of your contention, Pope Urban II is
not Jesus Christ. Reread my statement.


Other religious nonsense snipped...


And what is your point? That cruel people will do cruel things
under any given flag? Certainly. Do you want a litany of things
done under the flag of atheism and anti-Christian activism? Are
you going to accept the blame for the murder of kulaks under Stalin,
the killing fields of Cambodia, etc. Certainly in the past couple
hundred years, millions more people have been murdered in the name
of atheism than in the name of any deist religion.