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#61
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More arrests....
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:56:46 GMT, "House of Paisley"
wrote in Message-Id: iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01: I gave George the benefit of the doubt after the last incident, There was a previous incident involving George Norris? |
#62
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More arrests....
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 21:50:56 GMT, "GrlIntrpted"
wrote in Message-Id: : A repost of a link that was posted to Orchid Spring Discussion Board. http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...al/8118304.htm] I found this information interesting: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:21:34 -1000 From: "Bill Bergstrom" To: "Orchid" Subject: [OGD] Arias Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Some of what you have been told about the arrest of Manuel Arias Silva in Miami, some not quite true. George arrive at the show and so did all the plants (quite legal) No Manuel..After extensive phoning Manuel was found to be incarcerated. George went there and was denied any info or visit (typical now days..same as Pepe) The idea was to keep him there in jail indefinitely..No bail, no phone calls no hearing (I guess) George and his wife (in the legal business) turned that all around. They eventually set it up for Manuel (one of the dearest people you would ever want to know..frail,,in terrible health) to be released to Georges custody..In Texas...The prosecution screamed..but bail was set..HOWEVER..he is still cooped up until Monday..Weekend and all that..even though the procedure was finished early Fri. (or so I am told) No charges were totally defined but plenty discovered. NO Kovachii involved..merely Phrags in general and the whole thing going back as long as ten years ago. I had previously heard that it had to do with mislabeling a plant (according to F &W) and maybe because plants of Phrag caudatum Sanderae were labeled falsely as caudatum...If so..F&W is way off base..They are one and the same and, in fact, no one is even calling the plant Sanderae at all anymore..(I guess like the plants I used to sell as Peruviana and Amazonica...names just dissolved away) Point being that much is to be known if, in fact, there are 80 counts against him as I heard..Further..rumor has it that plants were shipped with a Maxillaria designation...The Miami local paper has a longer account..very much filled with damning evidence...It looks bad for both George and Manuel if true..Story has it that George is also to be indicted when he goes home..hopefully with Manuel, who that had evidently hoped to keep in jail to provide info against George..You know...Get him to squeal..or never see the light of day or another Peruvian sunset...What was the name of that book George Orwell put out.??? Hell Cant remember..that time has passed..Or has it? Lastly..from what I hear..A knight in armor has appeared and a lawyer showed up at the show and offered to help Manuel..A lawyer who loves and is quite familiar with Orchids...A definite plus for the situation...We will be hearing about this for a long time to come I fear...I can tell you this for certain. I have known Manuel for 25 years and a finer, more respectable man you will never meet..George and I have had our differences through the years..but I have never heard a breath of his attempting to sell illegal stuff (though the news article says there is evidence that he did) You can take things out of context when you read between the lines on that article...Were they illegal (by someone's standard) Phrags he was discussing in his messages (somehow obtained..hundreds of them) to Manuel..or simply instructions on how to get every day Orchids easily and quickly through the paper work..Only time will tell...My fears are that it is not the actual situation we should be shuddering about..but the process that has brought it about and what that means to our rights and to our privacy. Bill ------------------------------ |
#63
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More arrests....
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:56:46 GMT, "House of Paisley"
wrote in Message-Id: iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01: I gave George the benefit of the doubt after the last incident, There was a previous incident involving George Norris? |
#64
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More arrests....
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 21:50:56 GMT, "GrlIntrpted"
wrote in Message-Id: : A repost of a link that was posted to Orchid Spring Discussion Board. http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...al/8118304.htm] I found this information interesting: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:21:34 -1000 From: "Bill Bergstrom" To: "Orchid" Subject: [OGD] Arias Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Some of what you have been told about the arrest of Manuel Arias Silva in Miami, some not quite true. George arrive at the show and so did all the plants (quite legal) No Manuel..After extensive phoning Manuel was found to be incarcerated. George went there and was denied any info or visit (typical now days..same as Pepe) The idea was to keep him there in jail indefinitely..No bail, no phone calls no hearing (I guess) George and his wife (in the legal business) turned that all around. They eventually set it up for Manuel (one of the dearest people you would ever want to know..frail,,in terrible health) to be released to Georges custody..In Texas...The prosecution screamed..but bail was set..HOWEVER..he is still cooped up until Monday..Weekend and all that..even though the procedure was finished early Fri. (or so I am told) No charges were totally defined but plenty discovered. NO Kovachii involved..merely Phrags in general and the whole thing going back as long as ten years ago. I had previously heard that it had to do with mislabeling a plant (according to F &W) and maybe because plants of Phrag caudatum Sanderae were labeled falsely as caudatum...If so..F&W is way off base..They are one and the same and, in fact, no one is even calling the plant Sanderae at all anymore..(I guess like the plants I used to sell as Peruviana and Amazonica...names just dissolved away) Point being that much is to be known if, in fact, there are 80 counts against him as I heard..Further..rumor has it that plants were shipped with a Maxillaria designation...The Miami local paper has a longer account..very much filled with damning evidence...It looks bad for both George and Manuel if true..Story has it that George is also to be indicted when he goes home..hopefully with Manuel, who that had evidently hoped to keep in jail to provide info against George..You know...Get him to squeal..or never see the light of day or another Peruvian sunset...What was the name of that book George Orwell put out.??? Hell Cant remember..that time has passed..Or has it? Lastly..from what I hear..A knight in armor has appeared and a lawyer showed up at the show and offered to help Manuel..A lawyer who loves and is quite familiar with Orchids...A definite plus for the situation...We will be hearing about this for a long time to come I fear...I can tell you this for certain. I have known Manuel for 25 years and a finer, more respectable man you will never meet..George and I have had our differences through the years..but I have never heard a breath of his attempting to sell illegal stuff (though the news article says there is evidence that he did) You can take things out of context when you read between the lines on that article...Were they illegal (by someone's standard) Phrags he was discussing in his messages (somehow obtained..hundreds of them) to Manuel..or simply instructions on how to get every day Orchids easily and quickly through the paper work..Only time will tell...My fears are that it is not the actual situation we should be shuddering about..but the process that has brought it about and what that means to our rights and to our privacy. Bill ------------------------------ |
#65
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More arrests....
I suppose it depends on if you think what happened in Florida
is considered an incident. Crystal -- http://home.comcast.net/~xtals/orchid.htm "Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:56:46 GMT, "House of Paisley" wrote in Message-Id: iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01: I gave George the benefit of the doubt after the last incident, There was a previous incident involving George Norris? |
#66
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More arrests....
Crystal,
My only concern related to the "stringency" with which the inspection stations work has to do with their experience with orchids. I can tell you from personal experience that some know what they're doing better than others. In some cases, clusters of pseudobulbs were torn apart before the formerly-specimen-plants got to me, while in others, they look like they took a course from me on orchid handling and packing. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! .. . . . . . . . . . . "House of Paisley" wrote in message news:iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01... True or untrue, there is something about this story that doesn't add up to me. I gave George the benefit of the doubt after the last incident, but am finding it harder to do so now. If I were in his position I would have wanted my shipments to go through the most stringent import station and specifically requested my imports be thoroughly inspected to avert further attention. Sure it would take longer, but there are other vendors where it takes months to get through the inspection process. I do have to say in his defense that I specifically check each plant I buy from any vendor to make sure it isn't a cites problem and none that I considered buying from his lists seemed to be restricted, but I don't check every plant on his lists, and don't buy Paphs. So take from that what you will. Crystal -- http://home.comcast.net/~xtals/orchid.htm "David Fouchey" wrote in message ... I was working under the assunmption the charges are likely true. If not then I hope he is exonerated. BUT when it comes to fols who ARE guilty of wholesale rampaging through wild stock I have no pity or use for them. MY Humble opinion of course. And Ray I agreee with you on Dubya but this is not the proper forum for that discussion! G Dave |
#67
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More arrests....
The difference is not only in their handling of plants -- as to which my
experience is similar to Ray's -- but in their understanding of the actual laws and regulations. I once made the mistake of calling to find out if I needed CITES docs to ship to a US possession [Guam]; the person I spoke to insisted that I did, and faxed me the regs upon which he was relying -- which stated, as clearly as gov't docs get, on the very first page, that I did not. Although the sale that I lost as a result would have been a nice one, it wasn't big enough to "fight city hall" over. [And although it wouldn't have mattered under the language of the regs, the orchids in question were not species, or even primary hybrids, so there was literally ZERO possibility that they could have been wild-collected.] -- Kenni Judd Juno Beach Orchids http://www.jborchids.com "Ray" wrote in message ... Crystal, My only concern related to the "stringency" with which the inspection stations work has to do with their experience with orchids. I can tell you from personal experience that some know what they're doing better than others. In some cases, clusters of pseudobulbs were torn apart before the formerly-specimen-plants got to me, while in others, they look like they took a course from me on orchid handling and packing. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! . . . . . . . . . . . "House of Paisley" wrote in message news:iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01... True or untrue, there is something about this story that doesn't add up to me. I gave George the benefit of the doubt after the last incident, but am finding it harder to do so now. If I were in his position I would have wanted my shipments to go through the most stringent import station and specifically requested my imports be thoroughly inspected to avert further attention. Sure it would take longer, but there are other vendors where it takes months to get through the inspection process. I do have to say in his defense that I specifically check each plant I buy from any vendor to make sure it isn't a cites problem and none that I considered buying from his lists seemed to be restricted, but I don't check every plant on his lists, and don't buy Paphs. So take from that what you will. Crystal -- http://home.comcast.net/~xtals/orchid.htm "David Fouchey" wrote in message ... I was working under the assunmption the charges are likely true. If not then I hope he is exonerated. BUT when it comes to fols who ARE guilty of wholesale rampaging through wild stock I have no pity or use for them. MY Humble opinion of course. And Ray I agreee with you on Dubya but this is not the proper forum for that discussion! G Dave |
#68
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More arrests....
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:56:46 GMT, "House of Paisley"
wrote in Message-Id: iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01: I gave George the benefit of the doubt after the last incident, There was a previous incident involving George Norris? |
#69
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More arrests....
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:56:46 GMT, "House of Paisley"
wrote in Message-Id: iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01: I gave George the benefit of the doubt after the last incident, There was a previous incident involving George Norris? |
#70
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More arrests....
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 21:50:56 GMT, "GrlIntrpted"
wrote in Message-Id: : A repost of a link that was posted to Orchid Spring Discussion Board. http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...al/8118304.htm] I found this information interesting: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:21:34 -1000 From: "Bill Bergstrom" To: "Orchid" Subject: [OGD] Arias Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Some of what you have been told about the arrest of Manuel Arias Silva in Miami, some not quite true. George arrive at the show and so did all the plants (quite legal) No Manuel..After extensive phoning Manuel was found to be incarcerated. George went there and was denied any info or visit (typical now days..same as Pepe) The idea was to keep him there in jail indefinitely..No bail, no phone calls no hearing (I guess) George and his wife (in the legal business) turned that all around. They eventually set it up for Manuel (one of the dearest people you would ever want to know..frail,,in terrible health) to be released to Georges custody..In Texas...The prosecution screamed..but bail was set..HOWEVER..he is still cooped up until Monday..Weekend and all that..even though the procedure was finished early Fri. (or so I am told) No charges were totally defined but plenty discovered. NO Kovachii involved..merely Phrags in general and the whole thing going back as long as ten years ago. I had previously heard that it had to do with mislabeling a plant (according to F &W) and maybe because plants of Phrag caudatum Sanderae were labeled falsely as caudatum...If so..F&W is way off base..They are one and the same and, in fact, no one is even calling the plant Sanderae at all anymore..(I guess like the plants I used to sell as Peruviana and Amazonica...names just dissolved away) Point being that much is to be known if, in fact, there are 80 counts against him as I heard..Further..rumor has it that plants were shipped with a Maxillaria designation...The Miami local paper has a longer account..very much filled with damning evidence...It looks bad for both George and Manuel if true..Story has it that George is also to be indicted when he goes home..hopefully with Manuel, who that had evidently hoped to keep in jail to provide info against George..You know...Get him to squeal..or never see the light of day or another Peruvian sunset...What was the name of that book George Orwell put out.??? Hell Cant remember..that time has passed..Or has it? Lastly..from what I hear..A knight in armor has appeared and a lawyer showed up at the show and offered to help Manuel..A lawyer who loves and is quite familiar with Orchids...A definite plus for the situation...We will be hearing about this for a long time to come I fear...I can tell you this for certain. I have known Manuel for 25 years and a finer, more respectable man you will never meet..George and I have had our differences through the years..but I have never heard a breath of his attempting to sell illegal stuff (though the news article says there is evidence that he did) You can take things out of context when you read between the lines on that article...Were they illegal (by someone's standard) Phrags he was discussing in his messages (somehow obtained..hundreds of them) to Manuel..or simply instructions on how to get every day Orchids easily and quickly through the paper work..Only time will tell...My fears are that it is not the actual situation we should be shuddering about..but the process that has brought it about and what that means to our rights and to our privacy. Bill ------------------------------ |
#71
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More arrests....
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 21:50:56 GMT, "GrlIntrpted"
wrote in Message-Id: : A repost of a link that was posted to Orchid Spring Discussion Board. http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...al/8118304.htm] I found this information interesting: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:21:34 -1000 From: "Bill Bergstrom" To: "Orchid" Subject: [OGD] Arias Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Some of what you have been told about the arrest of Manuel Arias Silva in Miami, some not quite true. George arrive at the show and so did all the plants (quite legal) No Manuel..After extensive phoning Manuel was found to be incarcerated. George went there and was denied any info or visit (typical now days..same as Pepe) The idea was to keep him there in jail indefinitely..No bail, no phone calls no hearing (I guess) George and his wife (in the legal business) turned that all around. They eventually set it up for Manuel (one of the dearest people you would ever want to know..frail,,in terrible health) to be released to Georges custody..In Texas...The prosecution screamed..but bail was set..HOWEVER..he is still cooped up until Monday..Weekend and all that..even though the procedure was finished early Fri. (or so I am told) No charges were totally defined but plenty discovered. NO Kovachii involved..merely Phrags in general and the whole thing going back as long as ten years ago. I had previously heard that it had to do with mislabeling a plant (according to F &W) and maybe because plants of Phrag caudatum Sanderae were labeled falsely as caudatum...If so..F&W is way off base..They are one and the same and, in fact, no one is even calling the plant Sanderae at all anymore..(I guess like the plants I used to sell as Peruviana and Amazonica...names just dissolved away) Point being that much is to be known if, in fact, there are 80 counts against him as I heard..Further..rumor has it that plants were shipped with a Maxillaria designation...The Miami local paper has a longer account..very much filled with damning evidence...It looks bad for both George and Manuel if true..Story has it that George is also to be indicted when he goes home..hopefully with Manuel, who that had evidently hoped to keep in jail to provide info against George..You know...Get him to squeal..or never see the light of day or another Peruvian sunset...What was the name of that book George Orwell put out.??? Hell Cant remember..that time has passed..Or has it? Lastly..from what I hear..A knight in armor has appeared and a lawyer showed up at the show and offered to help Manuel..A lawyer who loves and is quite familiar with Orchids...A definite plus for the situation...We will be hearing about this for a long time to come I fear...I can tell you this for certain. I have known Manuel for 25 years and a finer, more respectable man you will never meet..George and I have had our differences through the years..but I have never heard a breath of his attempting to sell illegal stuff (though the news article says there is evidence that he did) You can take things out of context when you read between the lines on that article...Were they illegal (by someone's standard) Phrags he was discussing in his messages (somehow obtained..hundreds of them) to Manuel..or simply instructions on how to get every day Orchids easily and quickly through the paper work..Only time will tell...My fears are that it is not the actual situation we should be shuddering about..but the process that has brought it about and what that means to our rights and to our privacy. Bill ------------------------------ |
#72
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More arrests....
I'm no orchid vendor, just a small time orchid grower, so I don't really
know which entry points in the USA are tighter on plant inspection. I can however tell you that when I brought my orchids from Hawai'i to the mainland, and informed the authorities (both when leaving Hawai'i as well as when I got to NY) that I am bringing orchids with me, they didn't even want to look in the boxes, in fact, they asked for no paperwork at all. Now, I didn't bring anything that "shouldn't" be in my collection, but I found it very odd that they could care less about what was inside of the boxes.... Mariana "House of Paisley" wrote in message news:iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01... True or untrue, there is something about this story that doesn't add up to me. I gave George the benefit of the doubt after the last incident, but am finding it harder to do so now. If I were in his position I would have wanted my shipments to go through the most stringent import station and specifically requested my imports be thoroughly inspected to avert further attention. Sure it would take longer, but there are other vendors where it takes months to get through the inspection process. I do have to say in his defense that I specifically check each plant I buy from any vendor to make sure it isn't a cites problem and none that I considered buying from his lists seemed to be restricted, but I don't check every plant on his lists, and don't buy Paphs. So take from that what you will. Crystal -- http://home.comcast.net/~xtals/orchid.htm "David Fouchey" wrote in message ... I was working under the assunmption the charges are likely true. If not then I hope he is exonerated. BUT when it comes to fols who ARE guilty of wholesale rampaging through wild stock I have no pity or use for them. MY Humble opinion of course. And Ray I agreee with you on Dubya but this is not the proper forum for that discussion! G Dave |
#73
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More arrests....
I'm no orchid vendor, just a small time orchid grower, so I don't really
know which entry points in the USA are tighter on plant inspection. I can however tell you that when I brought my orchids from Hawai'i to the mainland, and informed the authorities (both when leaving Hawai'i as well as when I got to NY) that I am bringing orchids with me, they didn't even want to look in the boxes, in fact, they asked for no paperwork at all. Now, I didn't bring anything that "shouldn't" be in my collection, but I found it very odd that they could care less about what was inside of the boxes.... Mariana "House of Paisley" wrote in message news:iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01... True or untrue, there is something about this story that doesn't add up to me. I gave George the benefit of the doubt after the last incident, but am finding it harder to do so now. If I were in his position I would have wanted my shipments to go through the most stringent import station and specifically requested my imports be thoroughly inspected to avert further attention. Sure it would take longer, but there are other vendors where it takes months to get through the inspection process. I do have to say in his defense that I specifically check each plant I buy from any vendor to make sure it isn't a cites problem and none that I considered buying from his lists seemed to be restricted, but I don't check every plant on his lists, and don't buy Paphs. So take from that what you will. Crystal -- http://home.comcast.net/~xtals/orchid.htm "David Fouchey" wrote in message ... I was working under the assunmption the charges are likely true. If not then I hope he is exonerated. BUT when it comes to fols who ARE guilty of wholesale rampaging through wild stock I have no pity or use for them. MY Humble opinion of course. And Ray I agreee with you on Dubya but this is not the proper forum for that discussion! G Dave |
#74
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More arrests....
"GrlIntrpted" wrote in message .net...
I can however tell you that when I brought my orchids from Hawai'i to the mainland, and informed the authorities (both when leaving Hawai'i as well as when I got to NY) that I am bringing orchids with me, they didn't even want to look in the boxes, in fact, they asked for no paperwork at all. Now, I didn't bring anything that "shouldn't" be in my collection, but I found it very odd that they could care less about what was inside of the boxes.... Mariana Yabbut that's is a totally different situation. Fortunately, we're not at the point where one needs CITES certificates to take listed plants from state to state. Hawaii isn't a foreign country and NY doesn't worry very much about interstate plant movement from a phytosanitary standpoint. I'm sure Arizona or California would have been very interested if one of those states were your final destination, since they have very strict phytosanitary laws/regs. MG |
#75
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More arrests....
"GrlIntrpted" wrote in message .net...
I can however tell you that when I brought my orchids from Hawai'i to the mainland, and informed the authorities (both when leaving Hawai'i as well as when I got to NY) that I am bringing orchids with me, they didn't even want to look in the boxes, in fact, they asked for no paperwork at all. Now, I didn't bring anything that "shouldn't" be in my collection, but I found it very odd that they could care less about what was inside of the boxes.... Mariana Yabbut that's is a totally different situation. Fortunately, we're not at the point where one needs CITES certificates to take listed plants from state to state. Hawaii isn't a foreign country and NY doesn't worry very much about interstate plant movement from a phytosanitary standpoint. I'm sure Arizona or California would have been very interested if one of those states were your final destination, since they have very strict phytosanitary laws/regs. MG |
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