On 31 Dec 2009, 23:05, lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 22:53:24 -0000, "Bill Grey"





wrote:

" If a fox was struggling to survive it might take just the one chicken,
instead , it will kill pretty well all the chickens in a killing frenzy.
Not the act of a starving animal.

Only if we leave the pantry door open.

Mankind can hardly complain about the antics of another animal and
claim the moral high ground.

Lloyd,

You have prolonged this thread with ludicrous arguments and a distorted
point of view.

Only if viewed with a warped mind and a crooked eye. A fox is no more
a pest than a village idiot who thinks it is, neither deserve to be
killed just because they are what they are.

Your response to my statement above bears no relation to the content of my
remarks.

That's because your ignorance does not allow you to comprehend the
reply. None so blind as the idiot who refuses to see.

It has been a somewhat amusing diversion.

You don't seem to be having much fun.

Time for you to go to bed now.

Or what, I should be shot too?

You need to wake up and realise you're nothing but a tick on the ass
of humanity like the rest of us, instead of getting ideas above your
station and telling nature how she should run her world.

Humour apart - I was informed yesterday that a Pine Marten was
recently caught and died horribly, in a trap nearby. The trap was
aimed at foxes and other predatory animals of (they say) farm
livestock. This practice is barbaric and unnecessary. It is my
opinion, for what it is worth, that the trap owner should be given a
taste of his own medicine.
Cheers,
Compo in Caithness.

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 02:25:01 -0800 (PST), Compo in Caithness
wrote:

On 31 Dec 2009, 23:05, lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 22:53:24 -0000, "Bill Grey"





wrote:

" If a fox was struggling to survive it might take just the one chicken,
instead , it will kill pretty well all the chickens in a killing frenzy.
Not the act of a starving animal.

Only if we leave the pantry door open.

Mankind can hardly complain about the antics of another animal and
claim the moral high ground.

Lloyd,

You have prolonged this thread with ludicrous arguments and a distorted
point of view.

Only if viewed with a warped mind and a crooked eye. A fox is no more
a pest than a village idiot who thinks it is, neither deserve to be
killed just because they are what they are.

Your response to my statement above bears no relation to the content of my
remarks.

That's because your ignorance does not allow you to comprehend the
reply. None so blind as the idiot who refuses to see.

It has been a somewhat amusing diversion.

You don't seem to be having much fun.

Time for you to go to bed now.

Or what, I should be shot too?

You need to wake up and realise you're nothing but a tick on the ass
of humanity like the rest of us, instead of getting ideas above your
station and telling nature how she should run her world.

Humour apart - I was informed yesterday that a Pine Marten was
recently caught and died horribly, in a trap nearby. The trap was
aimed at foxes and other predatory animals of (they say) farm
livestock. This practice is barbaric and unnecessary. It is my
opinion, for what it is worth, that the trap owner should be given a
taste of his own medicine.

Terrible shame the ignorance that abounds where wildlife are
concerned. Justice is well served on the reap what you sow principle,
unfortunately like all justice these days it can rarely be seen.

On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 21:34:06 -0000, "Bill Grey"
wrote:


"Mike" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 12:10:57 -0500, Steve Barron
wrote:


Love them or hate them, foxes cause not only damage to our lawns and
steal our tools, but are capable of transmitting diseases via their
treacle-like faeces and strong odour urine such as leptospirosis (weil's
disease) and toxocaris, not to mention the internal & external parasites
they will almost definately be carrying. Under The Abandonement Act
1960, it is illegal to release foxes once trapped; therefore, the only
humane and legal solution is to safely dispatch them. I am professional
Urban Fox Controller working in North & East London areas, spending most
of my time in schools, colleges, commercial and residential properties.
I am often called in by gardeners due to the constant digging up of
lawns and flower beds and the unpleasant fouling left behind. for more
information, my website is www.pestgo4u.com

A domestic dog has the same chance of contracting leptospirosis as a
fox .. urban or otherwise. So do we shoot stray dogs ?

Mike P

No we pay vets to inject them to protect them.

Bill. e


I agree that protects the dog ... but it does not stop it being a
carrier in the short term. eg ... dog makes contact with female
rat/fox urine .. dog licks owners hand .... owner might have a open
scratch on hand or maybe just rub his eye etc. Easily done.
I contracted Lepto whilst working on a farm in Shropshire ..not
pleasant .. the nasty beastys had become resistant to Warfarin and
were having a great time.


Mike P

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 10:55:05 +0000, Mike wrote:

On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 21:34:06 -0000, "Bill Grey"
wrote:


"Mike" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 12:10:57 -0500, Steve Barron
wrote:


Love them or hate them, foxes cause not only damage to our lawns and
steal our tools, but are capable of transmitting diseases via their
treacle-like faeces and strong odour urine such as leptospirosis (weil's
disease) and toxocaris, not to mention the internal & external parasites
they will almost definately be carrying. Under The Abandonement Act
1960, it is illegal to release foxes once trapped; therefore, the only
humane and legal solution is to safely dispatch them. I am professional
Urban Fox Controller working in North & East London areas, spending most
of my time in schools, colleges, commercial and residential properties.
I am often called in by gardeners due to the constant digging up of
lawns and flower beds and the unpleasant fouling left behind. for more
information, my website is www.pestgo4u.com

A domestic dog has the same chance of contracting leptospirosis as a
fox .. urban or otherwise. So do we shoot stray dogs ?

Mike P

No we pay vets to inject them to protect them.

Bill. e


I agree that protects the dog ... but it does not stop it being a
carrier in the short term. eg ... dog makes contact with female
rat/fox urine .. dog licks owners hand .... owner might have a open
scratch on hand or maybe just rub his eye etc. Easily done.
I contracted Lepto whilst working on a farm in Shropshire ..not
pleasant .. the nasty beastys had become resistant to Warfarin and
were having a great time.

How many of us actually bother to wash our hands enough, especially
when working in the garden. Anthrax and all sorts in the soils. I also
have greater respect for the poor farmers who grow things, having seen
my fruits eaten ,crawled on, shat upon, peed on and so on. Not sure
I'd have anything again unless it can be peeled or split. I was
surprised at how many flies there are in the open countryside since I
started growing stuff, and noticing.

On 2010-01-01 11:18:02 +0000, lloyd said:
snip

How many of us actually bother to wash our hands enough, especially
when working in the garden. Anthrax and all sorts in the soils. I also
have greater respect for the poor farmers who grow things, having seen
my fruits eaten ,crawled on, shat upon, peed on and so on. Not sure
I'd have anything again unless it can be peeled or split. I was
surprised at how many flies there are in the open countryside since I
started growing stuff, and noticing.

You're surprised at flies.......in the countryside and you think
gardeners are at danger from Anthrax.... This does explain some of
the things you say about keeping chickens, treatment of foxes etc.
The Health Protection Agency reports that there has been a *total* of
19 cases of anthrax in England and Wales between 1981 and 2008. The
last death was in Scotland in 2006 and that was of someone handling
animal hides in making and playing drums. This is hardly a deadly
infection that you're going to encounter whenever you dig in the
garden. The most basic hygiene means people wash their hands, not fear
of Anthrax in their garden.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 11:40:45 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-01-01 11:18:02 +0000, lloyd said:
snip

How many of us actually bother to wash our hands enough, especially
when working in the garden. Anthrax and all sorts in the soils. I also
have greater respect for the poor farmers who grow things, having seen
my fruits eaten ,crawled on, shat upon, peed on and so on. Not sure
I'd have anything again unless it can be peeled or split. I was
surprised at how many flies there are in the open countryside since I
started growing stuff, and noticing.

You're surprised at flies.......in the countryside

No.

and you think
gardeners are at danger from Anthrax....

We face many dangers. Some real, many imagined. Your point?

This does explain some of the things you say about keeping chickens, treatment of foxes etc.

How?

The Health Protection Agency reports that there has been a *total* of
19 cases of anthrax in England and Wales between 1981 and 2008. The
last death was in Scotland in 2006 and that was of someone handling
animal hides in making and playing drums. This is hardly a deadly
infection that you're going to encounter whenever you dig in the
garden.

Who said it was?

The most basic hygiene means people wash their hands, not fear
of Anthrax in their garden.

You seem to have gone off on a merry dance, or not yet sober from last
nights merriment, either way make no sense I'm afraid.

On 2010-01-01 11:53:55 +0000, lloyd said:

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 11:40:45 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-01-01 11:18:02 +0000, lloyd said:
snip

How many of us actually bother to wash our hands enough, especially
when working in the garden. Anthrax and all sorts in the soils. I also
have greater respect for the poor farmers who grow things, having seen
my fruits eaten ,crawled on, shat upon, peed on and so on. Not sure
I'd have anything again unless it can be peeled or split. I was
surprised at how many flies there are in the open countryside since I
started growing stuff, and noticing.

You're surprised at flies.......in the countryside

No.

and you think
gardeners are at danger from Anthrax....

We face many dangers. Some real, many imagined. Your point?

This does explain some of the things you say about keeping chickens,
treatment of foxes etc.

How?

The Health Protection Agency reports that there has been a *total* of
19 cases of anthrax in England and Wales between 1981 and 2008. The
last death was in Scotland in 2006 and that was of someone handling
animal hides in making and playing drums. This is hardly a deadly
infection that you're going to encounter whenever you dig in the
garden.

Who said it was?

The most basic hygiene means people wash their hands, not fear
of Anthrax in their garden.

You seem to have gone off on a merry dance, or not yet sober from last
nights merriment, either way make no sense I'm afraid.

Once you resort to insult, you lose the thrust of your argument. The
same happens if you use exaggeration, as you did above and to which I
responded. FYI, we went to bed before midnight last night, a lonnnng
way from drunk and despite my husband's 60 years as a nurseryman,
neither of us suffering from anthrax or a wonderment that there are
flies in the countryside, sometimes, somewhere. To be honest, I don't
think you actually have much idea of what you're talking about and
aren't interested in listening to those who do, so inevitably you will
learn nothing. Christina has been keeping poultry for years and yet
you think you know better than she how to do it. That pretty much
demonstrates your line of reasoning. But that's most definitely your
problem, not mine. 'bye.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 13:05:59 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-01-01 11:53:55 +0000, lloyd said:

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 11:40:45 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-01-01 11:18:02 +0000, lloyd said:
snip

How many of us actually bother to wash our hands enough, especially
when working in the garden. Anthrax and all sorts in the soils. I also
have greater respect for the poor farmers who grow things, having seen
my fruits eaten ,crawled on, shat upon, peed on and so on. Not sure
I'd have anything again unless it can be peeled or split. I was
surprised at how many flies there are in the open countryside since I
started growing stuff, and noticing.

You're surprised at flies.......in the countryside

No.

and you think
gardeners are at danger from Anthrax....

We face many dangers. Some real, many imagined. Your point?

This does explain some of the things you say about keeping chickens,
treatment of foxes etc.

How?

The Health Protection Agency reports that there has been a *total* of
19 cases of anthrax in England and Wales between 1981 and 2008. The
last death was in Scotland in 2006 and that was of someone handling
animal hides in making and playing drums. This is hardly a deadly
infection that you're going to encounter whenever you dig in the
garden.

Who said it was?

The most basic hygiene means people wash their hands, not fear
of Anthrax in their garden.

You seem to have gone off on a merry dance, or not yet sober from last
nights merriment, either way make no sense I'm afraid.

Once you resort to insult, you lose the thrust of your argument.

Once you resort to feigning hurt and mock injustice you lose the plot.
Why does the truth insult you?

The
same happens if you use exaggeration, as you did above and to which I
responded. FYI, we went to bed before midnight last night, a lonnnng
way from drunk and despite my husband's 60 years as a nurseryman,
neither of us suffering from anthrax or a wonderment that there are
flies in the countryside, sometimes, somewhere. To be honest, I don't
think you actually have much idea of what you're talking about and
aren't interested in listening to those who do, so inevitably you will
learn nothing. Christina has been keeping poultry for years and yet
you think you know better than she how to do it. That pretty much
demonstrates your line of reasoning. But that's most definitely your
problem, not mine. 'bye.

You may think you make a coherent argument, all we see is smoke and
mirrors.

What argument can there be to victimise and persecute a dumb animal
who seeks only to survive, against an overly conceited, well fed and
protected individual who seeks to play God and watch the world revolve
around themselves? I'd be very keen to hear a cogent defence!

Why should I not defend the poor beast against ignorance such as
yours?

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 13:05:59 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-01-01 11:53:55 +0000, lloyd said:

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 11:40:45 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-01-01 11:18:02 +0000, lloyd said:
snip

How many of us actually bother to wash our hands enough, especially
when working in the garden. Anthrax and all sorts in the soils. I also
have greater respect for the poor farmers who grow things, having seen
my fruits eaten ,crawled on, shat upon, peed on and so on. Not sure
I'd have anything again unless it can be peeled or split. I was
surprised at how many flies there are in the open countryside since I
started growing stuff, and noticing.

You're surprised at flies.......in the countryside

No.

and you think
gardeners are at danger from Anthrax....

We face many dangers. Some real, many imagined. Your point?

This does explain some of the things you say about keeping chickens,
treatment of foxes etc.

How?

The Health Protection Agency reports that there has been a *total* of
19 cases of anthrax in England and Wales between 1981 and 2008. The
last death was in Scotland in 2006 and that was of someone handling
animal hides in making and playing drums. This is hardly a deadly
infection that you're going to encounter whenever you dig in the
garden.

Who said it was?

The most basic hygiene means people wash their hands, not fear
of Anthrax in their garden.

You seem to have gone off on a merry dance, or not yet sober from last
nights merriment, either way make no sense I'm afraid.

Christina has been keeping poultry for years and yet
you think you know better than she how to do it.

It would appear anyone does. Keeping poultry and looking after it are
two different things. Ask her how many animals she has had killed for
her negligence and then ask her when will she learn?

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 13:05:59 +0000, Sacha wrote:

You seem to have gone off on a merry dance, or not yet sober from last
nights merriment, either way make no sense I'm afraid.

Once you resort to insult, you lose the thrust of your argument. The
same happens if you use exaggeration, as you did above and to which I
responded. FYI, we went to bed before midnight last night, a lonnnng
way from drunk and despite my husband's 60 years as a nurseryman,
neither of us suffering from anthrax or a wonderment that there are
flies in the countryside, sometimes, somewhere. To be honest, I don't
think you actually have much idea of what you're talking about and
aren't interested in listening to those who do, so inevitably you will
learn nothing. Christina has been keeping poultry for years and yet
you think you know better than she how to do it. That pretty much
demonstrates your line of reasoning. But that's most definitely your
problem, not mine. 'bye.

Very wise, that farewell. Just *Plonk/KF the troll.


--
(¯`·. ®óñ© © ²°¹° .·´¯)

"Compo in Caithness" wrote in message
...
On 31 Dec 2009, 23:05, lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 22:53:24 -0000, "Bill Grey"





wrote:

" If a fox was struggling to survive it might take just the one
chicken,
instead , it will kill pretty well all the chickens in a killing
frenzy.
Not the act of a starving animal.

Only if we leave the pantry door open.

Mankind can hardly complain about the antics of another animal and
claim the moral high ground.

Lloyd,

You have prolonged this thread with ludicrous arguments and a distorted
point of view.

Only if viewed with a warped mind and a crooked eye. A fox is no more
a pest than a village idiot who thinks it is, neither deserve to be
killed just because they are what they are.

Your response to my statement above bears no relation to the content of
my
remarks.

That's because your ignorance does not allow you to comprehend the
reply. None so blind as the idiot who refuses to see.

It has been a somewhat amusing diversion.

You don't seem to be having much fun.

Time for you to go to bed now.

Or what, I should be shot too?

You need to wake up and realise you're nothing but a tick on the ass
of humanity like the rest of us, instead of getting ideas above your
station and telling nature how she should run her world.

Humour apart - I was informed yesterday that a Pine Marten was
recently caught and died horribly, in a trap nearby. The trap was
aimed at foxes and other predatory animals of (they say) farm
livestock. This practice is barbaric and unnecessary. It is my
opinion, for what it is worth, that the trap owner should be given a
taste of his own medicine.

Bernard Levin once argued that animal rights advocates hated humanity. I'm
beginning to think that he was right!
Graham

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 07:27:22 -0700, "graham" wrote:


"Compo in Caithness" wrote in message
...
On 31 Dec 2009, 23:05, lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 22:53:24 -0000, "Bill Grey"





wrote:

" If a fox was struggling to survive it might take just the one
chicken,
instead , it will kill pretty well all the chickens in a killing
frenzy.
Not the act of a starving animal.

Only if we leave the pantry door open.

Mankind can hardly complain about the antics of another animal and
claim the moral high ground.

Lloyd,

You have prolonged this thread with ludicrous arguments and a distorted
point of view.

Only if viewed with a warped mind and a crooked eye. A fox is no more
a pest than a village idiot who thinks it is, neither deserve to be
killed just because they are what they are.

Your response to my statement above bears no relation to the content of
my
remarks.

That's because your ignorance does not allow you to comprehend the
reply. None so blind as the idiot who refuses to see.

It has been a somewhat amusing diversion.

You don't seem to be having much fun.

Time for you to go to bed now.

Or what, I should be shot too?

You need to wake up and realise you're nothing but a tick on the ass
of humanity like the rest of us, instead of getting ideas above your
station and telling nature how she should run her world.

Humour apart - I was informed yesterday that a Pine Marten was
recently caught and died horribly, in a trap nearby. The trap was
aimed at foxes and other predatory animals of (they say) farm
livestock. This practice is barbaric and unnecessary. It is my
opinion, for what it is worth, that the trap owner should be given a
taste of his own medicine.

Bernard Levin once argued that animal rights advocates hated humanity. I'm
beginning to think that he was right!
Graham

Live by the sword..................... you're hardly in a position to
complain about it are you!

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 14:05:17 +0000, ®óñ© © ²°¹°-°¹
wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 13:05:59 +0000, Sacha wrote:

You seem to have gone off on a merry dance, or not yet sober from last
nights merriment, either way make no sense I'm afraid.

Once you resort to insult, you lose the thrust of your argument. The
same happens if you use exaggeration, as you did above and to which I
responded. FYI, we went to bed before midnight last night, a lonnnng
way from drunk and despite my husband's 60 years as a nurseryman,
neither of us suffering from anthrax or a wonderment that there are
flies in the countryside, sometimes, somewhere. To be honest, I don't
think you actually have much idea of what you're talking about and
aren't interested in listening to those who do, so inevitably you will
learn nothing. Christina has been keeping poultry for years and yet
you think you know better than she how to do it. That pretty much
demonstrates your line of reasoning. But that's most definitely your
problem, not mine. 'bye.

Very wise, that farewell. Just *Plonk/KF the troll.

Could you repeat that please I couldn't get it above you banging your
rattle and screaming for attention?

Compo in Caithness wrote:

Humour apart - I was informed yesterday that a Pine Marten was
recently caught and died horribly, in a trap nearby. The trap was
aimed at foxes and other predatory animals of (they say) farm
livestock. This practice is barbaric and unnecessary.


So you have no actual evidence of this trap?
I doubt anyone uses anything but a plain 'trap not kill' trap for foxes.
These should be checked every day to see if anything has been caught,
and if anything has been caught, they should be shot or killed humanely
immediately.
How did this Pine Marten die then?

If you have evidence of jawed traps being used for foxes, then you
should inform the Police, if you havent, then you should'nt try and
spread gossip.
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

"Sacha" wrote aren't interested in listening to those
who do, so inevitably you will
learn nothing. Christina has been keeping poultry for years and yet you
think you know better than she how to do it. That pretty much
demonstrates your line of reasoning. But that's most definitely your
problem, not mine. 'bye.

I've kept poultry for more than 30 years and the biggest problem has been
that during the last few year, townies have started to feed them which makes
them not afraid of people and they come out in the day.
That makes it impossible for me to keep free range hens now.
I've already said that I quite like foxes, if they only try to get my birds
during the night when they are shut up at dusk. Which used to be the case.
A daytime fox that kills my chickens is an ex-fox. Sorry if that offends
anyone but that's how it is.

Tina