Kay writes:

In article , Sacha
writes

Do I get a grade for this? ;-) Poult (according to the same dictionary)
is the young of domestic fowl and game birds XV. Middle English, pult,
contr. of poulet PULLET So (arch.) poulter Old French pouletier extended
to poulterer XVII prob. After poultry, earlier pulletrie etc.

Interesting!

I hardly dare ask you this ... but what is the derivation of 'venison'?
And 'veal'? Are there any other meats which aren't simply called by the
name of the animal? I won't start on the bits of animal - why 'lights'
for example?

The OED says that:

Venison is from the old French "veneson" from the Latin "venationem"
which means "the act of hunting". It was originally anything edible
killed in a hunt.

Veal is from the old French "veel" (modern French "veau") from the
Latin "vitulus" meaning a calf.

OTOH "calf" is Anglo-Saxon and is related to the modern German
"kalbe".

So veal/calf follows the Norman/Anglo-Saxon meat/animal rule.

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

Alan

--
Alan Williams, Room IT301, School of Computer Science,
University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL, U.K.
Tel: +44 161 275 6270 Fax: +44 161 275 6280

"Dave" wrote in message
...
A recent article I read somewhere said that if the predicted bit of
La Palma
falls off in one slab the resulting tsunami will lead to the
disappearance
of the Isles of Scilly (among other damage!)
Charlie Pridham writes

Lots of people have said that, but it seems unlikely. To create a tsunami
requires a high energy shock wave, a bit of land falling in would,
however
large not be moving fast enough for the damage to be transmitted any
distance, although there would certainly be a large wave locally much as
when large icebergs break off.

I think you confuse speed with energy. If you drop a very very large
mass (say 5000 million tons) a few hundred feet (and I think in the case
of the canaries it drops a long way down to the ocean floor) then the
*energy* released is converted into a (relatively) smaller mass of water
travelling *very* fast. I don't know what the conversion factor is but
say 1% of the mass travelling at say 20 times the speed would still be
quite significant.
--
David
I may be wrong but I am not confused! :~) once the rock mass was in the
water the effect would be slight however far it falls, it can after all only
fall and accelerate at 9.81m/s2 . and I still think you would be hard
pressed to even detect it in New York were it to happen, (a similar sized
lump arriving from space would be travelling at a much higher speed and
would indeed cause allsorts of problems were it to hit ocean). The movement
of a tectonic plate can in some instances be at very high speed coupled with
the total mass on the move gives a huge amount more energy and even then not
all underwater quakes produces these waves.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

In article , Kay
wrote:

I think I said this when I first mentioned the word.

'un porc' - a pig.

You didn't - you just mentioned 'un porc' but didn't say whether it was
the pig or the meat ... 'cos I asked you that question in the next post
;-)

The french have a word for it: "Touche" (sorry - keyboard bust so I
can't do the accent).

L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:16:01 GMT, Stuart wrote:

And what's more, if an asteroid the size of Africa hits us we'll
all be killed........and what's more if we all wait long enough
we're all going to die anyway.

Don't panic Mr Mainwaring, don't panic!

There are no asteroids that size. The largest is Ceres, which is
about 1000km in diameter.

Bit of sweeping statement. None that we known about would be better.
B-) Anyway if somthing that size hit it would goodbye earth as it
would be broken a part by the impact. Some thing only a few km across
would have very serious implications on a global scale, a few hundred
metres across would knock the total distruction of the recent tsunami
into a cocked hat.

Me? I'm an ostrich, where is my bucket of sand?

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Big snip
In message , JeffC
writes
I accept that "tidal wave" is in common use to describe big waves of any
nature. But it still does not alter the fact that it is incorrect in the
case of this appalling disaster.

In the absence of an alternative word, then I would accept "tidal wave" as a
description, but in view of the fact there is a local word for the phenomena
a "tsunami" then I prefer to use that instead.

Modern dictionaries now make a distinction between the two;
Even bigger snip

What do you consider modern?
Our Concise Oxford Dictionary printed in 1968 distinguishes between the
two. Having defined tidal wave it goes on to state:-
tidal wave (Improper) any extraordinary ocean wave e.g. one attributed
to earthquake
tsunami:- sea wave caused by disturbance of ocean floor or seismic
movement.
My better half (B.Sc. Geography 1965) concurs with the above as the
correct technical analysis. It's just that the media has only discovered
the word tsunami in the last couple of years or so, but better late than
never.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

On 7/1/05 8:55, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes

Do I get a grade for this? ;-) Poult (according to the same dictionary)
is the young of domestic fowl and game birds XV. Middle English, pult,
contr. of poulet PULLET So (arch.) poulter Old French pouletier extended
to poulterer XVII prob. After poultry, earlier pulletrie etc.

Interesting!

I hardly dare ask you this ... but what is the derivation of 'venison'?
And 'veal'? Are there any other meats which aren't simply called by the
name of the animal? I won't start on the bits of animal - why 'lights'
for example?

Veal comes from old French, velaus (obl) veel And the Latin is vitellus,
diminutive of vitulus (calf). Of course modern French for veal *and* a calf
is 'veau'.
"Venison flesh of an animal killed in the chase XIII: (arch.) beast of the
chase XIV. ME veneso(u)n. OF veneso(u)n, -ison (mod. Venaison): L.
venatio, -on- hunting, game, f. venari hunt" (The 'f' there means 'formed
on')
Incidentally, I asked my French niece about what a pig is known as in French
- the animal, rather than the meat and she is firm that it is 'cochon'.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In article , Sacha
writes
On 7/1/05 8:55, in article , "Kay"
wrote:
Interesting!

I hardly dare ask you this ... but what is the derivation of 'venison'?
And 'veal'? Are there any other meats which aren't simply called by the
name of the animal? I won't start on the bits of animal - why 'lights'
for example?

Veal comes from old French, velaus (obl) veel And the Latin is vitellus,

Yes, I know that one - I think there is a cowrie with that as the
specific name.

diminutive of vitulus (calf). Of course modern French for veal *and* a calf
is 'veau'.
"Venison flesh of an animal killed in the chase XIII: (arch.) beast of the
chase XIV. ME veneso(u)n. OF veneso(u)n, -ison (mod. Venaison): L.
venatio, -on- hunting, game, f. venari hunt" (The 'f' there means 'formed
on')
Incidentally, I asked my French niece about what a pig is known as in French
- the animal, rather than the meat and she is firm that it is 'cochon'.

That's what I remembered from O level french buit I wouldn't back my o
level french knowledge against anyone else's knowledge of french, let
alone a french woman's.

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

On 8/1/05 16:37, in article , "Kay"
wrote:
snip
Incidentally, I asked my French niece about what a pig is known as in French
- the animal, rather than the meat and she is firm that it is 'cochon'.

That's what I remembered from O level french buit I wouldn't back my o
level french knowledge against anyone else's knowledge of french, let
alone a french woman's.

Of course, it's still possible that a local dialect would talk of "un porc"
but 'proper' French is "un cochon". In Jersey French, for example, a snail
is called 'un colînmachon' *and* 'un escargot' but in good French it's 'un
escargot'.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

"JeffC" wrote in message
...


--
(remove the troll to reply)

Always look on the bright side of life (De do, de do, de doody doody
do)


"Tim Challenger" wrote in message
news:1104838745.68a636cbd747e5fb5e2516c27b1790a8@t eranews...
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 11:25:36 +0000, Lazarus Cooke wrote:


We have a term for it too Tidal Wave.

That's the trouble. It was misleading. A tsunami has nothing at
all to
do with tides, and that's why they changed it.

L

At least it indicates that it's a wave, whereas the word "tsunami"
tells
the uninitiated naff-all.
Do you object to the name "slow worm"? Or toadstool? (to add the
gardening
topic).

--
Tim C.

If the uninitiated don't know what a tsunami is by now, then all I
can say
is they'd best stay uninitiated and perhaps not travel to the south
seas.

Tidal waves are caused by the sun and moon's effect on the earths
gravity

Not really. The earth's gravitational field is constant for all
practical purposes. The tides are caused by the gravirational effects
of the moon and the sun on the distribution of the water in the
oceans.

and therefore predictable to a certain degree.
Waves caused by earthquakes, volcanoes and hurricanes are not
predictable
and therefore cannot be called tidal.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Tim Challenger writes
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:47:10 -0000, BAC wrote:

Perhaps the fact most English speakers are not Japanese speakers
and are
hence unlikely to be confused by possible quibbles regarding the
literal
meaning of the term is one reason many of us consider 'tsunami' a
more apt
term than 'tidal wave'.

I'd have thought that as most English speakers speak English, they
might be
more likely to know what the work tidalwave means that tsunami.

Well maybe the 100 or so Thai and other nationalities saved by an 11
year old girl shouting 'Tsunami' might disagree with you there. Had
she
not have just studied it at school and recognised the sudden drop in
the
shoreline water, they might all be dead.

IMHO some of these catastrophes deserve an unusual and unique title
recognised around the world. Words do change their meaning - tidal
to me
implies something predictable, and a tidal wave means maybe a severn
bore or a predicted high water being pushed down the North Sea at a
slow
rate of knots, not an unexpected two or three metre wall of several
cubic kilometres travelling at several hundred miles an hour.

A given high tide goes right round the earth in 24 hours. That makes
its speed at the equator in the unobstructed ocean slightly over 1000
mph.

Franz

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:49:11 +0000, Sacha
wrote:


Alors, revenons a nos moutons......... (old French proverb) ;-)

Seeing the length of this thread, shouldn't that be 'Alors, revenons
a
nos jardins.......(old URG proverb). :-)

Not when we're all on full steam along these side waters
{:-))

Franz

"Kay" wrote in message
...

[snip]

The meat has the name of the animal in the language of the
conquering
classes who ate it, while the animal retains the language of the
conquered who grew it.

At least it works for boeuf and mouton, but I'm not sure where pork
comes from - the latin? - is it the modern french that has moved
away?

And when did you last see a piece of mutton for sale, or offered on a
menu?

Franz

"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Sacha
writes

Do I get a grade for this? ;-) Poult (according to the same
dictionary)
is the young of domestic fowl and game birds XV. Middle English,
pult,
contr. of poulet PULLET So (arch.) poulter Old French pouletier
extended
to poulterer XVII prob. After poultry, earlier pulletrie etc.

Interesting!

I hardly dare ask you this ... but what is the derivation of
'venison'?

{:-))

And 'veal'? Are there any other meats which aren't simply called by
the
name of the animal? I won't start on the bits of animal - why
'lights'
for example?

Or "amourettes"?

Franz

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 08:51:03 -0000, "BAC"

wrote:


"Douglas" wrote in message
news

June Hughes Wrote:
In message
When did everybody start calling a tidal wave a tsunami and
why?

I had never heard of one until there was a programme on TV
around a year or so ago.
--
June Hughes


Weather bosses decided that it needed a more up to date image and
rebranding ............??



Could be they were looking for a short, snappy and memorable name
for an
unusually large ocean wave caused by an undersea earthquake. The
japanese
have a name for such waves, perhaps because they live on islands in
an area
of frequent earthquake activity, so it probably made sense to adopt
the
term.

We have a term for it too Tidal Wave.

Ahh, but just think how cool it is to be able to say "tsunami"

Franz

wrote in message
...

[snip]

The main risk is the big piece of rock which is expected to fall off
an island in the Canaries, generate a tidal wave that will wipe out
the East Coats of the USA and not do a lot of good to the low
countries.

And their weskits?

Franz