Hi all

Last spring I dug up a 30 year old Kingswood to re-landscape my yard. Nice
tree with 2 inch caliper and 24 inches tall.
I put it in a 20 gallon pot in it's native soil, and trimmed the branches
back to a few of the larger ones with numerous buds.
I didn't touch the roots.
It developed lots of new branches and buds over the summer and is doing
fine.

Last week someone mentioned that some boxwood don't require a lengthy
dormancy before they'll start to grow again.

My question is,,,, here in Zone 6a (where we've had a few frosty mornings
already) how long should I leave this tree outside before bringing it inside
into a sun-light room, to encourage new growth?

I'm rather impatient !!

Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA, Zone 6a


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Hi Mark.

A 30 year old Kingsville boxwood in your landscaping-- what serendipidity...
:-). These slow growers would be rarely chosen for landscaping unless its
focus was miniaturization. I think you'd be better focused on replacing
the soil in the very early spring and arranging its roots than wondering
about bringing it inside to lengthen its growing season. Jim Doyle has had
numbers of these of considerable girth (for Kingsville), and he'd offer
great advice for your area.

In central Virginia, the Kingsville survives the coldest winters well
outside. You must be much colder. I think the several folks who recommend
increased seasonal growth by bringing them inside early really get little
"growth" with Kingsville in indoor culture. What they might get as a
benefit is keeping the plants from going into and out-of an early spring
flush of growth that then could suffer a late frost. I think a cold garage
(that stays cold) would be a beeter answer; unlike Iris, you are not
planning to display it indoors, yet.

Outdoor growth of Kingsville is VERY moderate. Indoor growth must approach
near standstill. Re' impatience, you might consider trading your valuable
Kingsville to Jim Doyle for a faster growing variety. I bet he would be
pleased at the trade, and you might be, as well.

Best wishes,
Chris... C. Cochrane, , Richmond VA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hill"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 11:38 AM
Subject: [IBC] Dormancy for Kingswood Yardsai


Hi all

Last spring I dug up a 30 year old Kingswood to re-landscape my yard...
...SNIP...
I'm rather impatient !!

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Thanks for the info Chris.

The only reason I think it's a Kingsville, is because my wife has called it
by that name since we planted it many many years ago. She's got a much
better memory for these things than I.
In actuality, it may be any variety of buxus.
I realize Kingsville is a slow grower, however, is a 24 inch tall canopy
more than what should be expected in a 30 year old tree? Like I said, it has
a two inch trunk, but isn't that possible if it's been growing in our yard
for 30 years?
The leaves are 3/8 to 1/2 inch long, light to dark green.
It produced small white flowers this spring after I potted it.

If it wasn't so heavy (20 gallon pot), I'd pack it off for Jim Doyle to have
a look at.
It's currently on rollers and it's all I can do to push it around the patio.
Maybe I'll take it to one of my Natures Way classes in the spring, when I'm
feeling stronger.

In the interim, you've suggested I leave it outside for the winter and
replace the soil and arrange the roots in the early spring. I'd like to
reduce the 24" canopy down to 12 inches before I stick it into a smaller
growing container. The rate of back budding suggests this is possible. When
I exposed the inner branch structure earlier this spring, it sprouted all
over the older wood producing lots of new potential branches!

Should I reduce the canopy before replacing the soil, or do both at the same
time?
Should I stick to the equal parts canopy to roots theory?
Or ..... Should I take it to Jim !!

Thanks for all your help.

Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of
Chris Cochrane
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 12:50 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Dormancy for Kingswood Yardsai

Hi Mark.

A 30 year old Kingsville boxwood in your landscaping-- what serendipidity...
:-). These slow growers would be rarely chosen for landscaping unless its
focus was miniaturization. I think you'd be better focused on replacing
the soil in the very early spring and arranging its roots than wondering
about bringing it inside to lengthen its growing season. Jim Doyle has had
numbers of these of considerable girth (for Kingsville), and he'd offer
great advice for your area.

In central Virginia, the Kingsville survives the coldest winters well
outside. You must be much colder. I think the several folks who recommend
increased seasonal growth by bringing them inside early really get little
"growth" with Kingsville in indoor culture. What they might get as a
benefit is keeping the plants from going into and out-of an early spring
flush of growth that then could suffer a late frost. I think a cold garage
(that stays cold) would be a beeter answer; unlike Iris, you are not
planning to display it indoors, yet.

Outdoor growth of Kingsville is VERY moderate. Indoor growth must approach
near standstill. Re' impatience, you might consider trading your valuable
Kingsville to Jim Doyle for a faster growing variety. I bet he would be
pleased at the trade, and you might be, as well.

Best wishes,
Chris... C. Cochrane, , Richmond VA

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Hi Mark. You write,
Thanks for the info Chris.
Cycle what I offered in the mix, but don't count on me as an expert-- I'm
not. My experience differs on overwintering Kingsville from some advice
that you've recently seen. I think Jim Doyle and Dale Cochoy both have
experience with lots of Kingsville boxwoods over many years. I'd like to
hear what they have perceived in overwintering if I had a plant the size
(and potential value) of yours. The Kingsville (variety of Buxus
microphylla) is more winter hardy than American boxwood (varieties of Buxus
sempervirens) which I have potted.

My concern would be be preserving the fine roots for introduction into a
coarse mix of bonsai soil. Between now and that repotting, I'd want to
preserve root health. If I took an outdoor temperate tree with regular soil
indoors for the winter, the change in requirements for healthy care would be
considerable (and probably beyond my capacity to anticipate based on past
experience).

If I kept it healed in outdoors or in a cold garage, the care would be
negligible. In the cold garage it would require VERY infrequent watering.
Healed in, I expect nature's watering would mostly suffice if your mulch was
penetrable... but I wonder about the garden soil holding too much water in a
pot since the tree won't be taking it up. I'd keep the tree cold (trying to
mitigate warm snaps) until close to repotting in EARLY spring, so a cold
garage (or similar) seems a good choice. I'd want buds near ready to pop &
roots ready to throw new growth when repotting.

Experienced friends have chosen relatively deep pots for Kingsville-- not
unlike the choice in size made for azaleas. I think you'll want a
considerably deeper pot than its 2" wide trunk.

You write,
Should I reduce the canopy before replacing the soil, or do
both at the same time?
Should I stick to the equal parts canopy to roots theory?
Or ..... Should I take it to Jim !!

...CHUCKLING... Right! Whether Jim sees the actual plant or not, ask Jim
Doyle. The question might be the apical dominance (or lack thereof) for
this plant. I wouldn't just whack the top-half off of an azalea if I wanted
bud break in mid-trunk, though I might for a hornbeam. I think roots and
canopy should be reduced together but those are not the only variables to
consider in reducing each. Others whom I respect think one significant
pruning is shock-enough without introducing another.

Sorry to not have more to offer, Mark. You generously helped me on an
awful PC software problem, once, and I owe you more than indecisive advice.

Very best wishes,
Chris... C. Cochrane, , Richmond VA

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Kingsville box in your zone grows best in a cool greenhouse or cold frame.
If you bring it into the house, make sure you keep the humidity high enough.
I believe the one greatest cause of loss for this plant is drying out of the
foliage. It's not completely hardy in zone 6, but it will stand temps close
to freezing. I'm in zone 7 and have had them survive down into the 20s.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hill"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 11:38 AM
Subject: [IBC] Dormancy for Kingswood Yardsai


Hi all

Last spring I dug up a 30 year old Kingswood to re-landscape my yard. Nice
tree with 2 inch caliper and 24 inches tall.
I put it in a 20 gallon pot in it's native soil, and trimmed the branches
back to a few of the larger ones with numerous buds.
I didn't touch the roots.
It developed lots of new branches and buds over the summer and is doing
fine.

Last week someone mentioned that some boxwood don't require a lengthy
dormancy before they'll start to grow again.

My question is,,,, here in Zone 6a (where we've had a few frosty mornings
already) how long should I leave this tree outside before bringing it
inside
into a sun-light room, to encourage new growth?

I'm rather impatient !!

Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA, Zone 6a



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****
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In a message dated 10/28/2003 11:38:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:
Last week someone mentioned that some boxwood don't require a lengthy
dormancy before they'll start to grow again.

My question is,,,, here in Zone 6a (where we've had a few frosty mornings
already) how long should I leave this tree outside before bringing it inside
into a sun-light room, to encourage new growth?
Mark:

Do not bring this into the house. Kingsville will thrive in your neck of the
woods as a true outdoor specimen. Simply place it in a suitable location
along with your other hardy trees, i.e., cold shed, cold house (co-poly covered),
cold frame, etc. If you are using a shed, I would suggest that you bury the
container in mulch to minimize damage from freeze-thaw cycles.

I have a containerized Kingsville (approximately 50 years of age) that I have
been wintering in my cold shed with great success. At this time, the
specimen is still outdoors but under lattice to protect it from excessive frost.

My observation is that most practitioners are overly protective of their
trees in the late fall. My preference is to leave the trees outside and move them
into storage just before the winter freeze.

BTW: I live in Chester Country (PA).

Cordially,

Michael Persiano

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In a message dated 10/28/2003 8:06:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:
You write,
Should I reduce the canopy before replacing the soil, or do
both at the same time?
Should I stick to the equal parts canopy to roots theory?
Or ..... Should I take it to Jim !!

...CHUCKLING... Right! Whether Jim sees the actual plant or not, ask Jim
Doyle. The question might be the apical dominance (or lack thereof) for
this plant. I wouldn't just whack the top-half off of an azalea if I wanted
bud break in mid-trunk, though I might for a hornbeam.
Mark:

When working with a containerized (not potted) Kingsville, the best course of
action is to style the tree BEFORE potting the material. Given the
incredibly slow pace at which Kingsville grows, it is not advisable to reduce the
foliage simply for the sake of potting the tree. Styling the tree before repotting
will allow you to creatively reduce the foliage while lightening the load on
what will soon be a reduced root system.

Chris' suggestion that you consider using a deeper pot is a wise one.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
The Michael Persiano Bonsai Studio

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Michael Persiano wrote:

In a message dated 10/28/2003 11:38:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:
Last week someone mentioned that some boxwood don't require a lengthy
dormancy before they'll start to grow again.

My question is,,,, here in Zone 6a (where we've had a few frosty mornings
already) how long should I leave this tree outside before bringing it inside
into a sun-light room, to encourage new growth?
Mark:

snipBTW: I live in Chester Country (PA).

Cordially,

Michael Persiano

Without seeing the boxwood we all can't be certain, but it doesn't sound like a
Kingsville boxwood to me. Sounds like one of the hardier species--Korean or English
perhaps. I have never heard of a Kingsville flowering, and the leaves sound too big.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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Thanks Michael / Chris / Martin for all your kind words and advice.

It appears my course of action should be .... Leave the tree (well mulched),
outside or in a cold frame/garage in high humidity conditions until it's
ready to break bud, then reduce the foliage a small amount, and the roots
not at all.

The tree appears happy. Since I "containerized" it last spring, it has
produced dozens of buds, a number of which have appeared in the old wood, at
places suggesting new branches.

From your comments on pot size, it's currently in a large round plastic pot
about 18 inches in diameter and 24 inches deep. I checked the roots earlier
this summer and found them slightly more than half way down the pot, all
happy and white. I'm concerned about drainage because of the typical garden
soil it's growing in. The pot only has a few holes in the bottom. Maybe I'll
drill a bunch more to improve drainage.

I'd like to leave the tree in it's current pot for a few more years until I
can reduce the foliage somewhat. Maybe by that time I can re-pot it into a
large mica training pot (gently placing the fine roots). I have a candidate
that's 18" X 12" X 5" that's currently holding an 20 year old azalea in
training. Who knows, maybe by then the azalea will find a slightly smaller
home.

Chris .... I'd love to drag it over to Jim Doyle for his recommendations,
but unfortunately I don't have a fork lift, nor will it fit in the trunk of
my car! I'd guess it weighs 150 lbs, and the pot/tree combination stands 4
feet tall! And Chris .... The PC problem you had some time ago was a simple
"issue" for me. I'm a long term Beta Tester for Microsoft and I support a
bunch of networked computers. Believe me, when it comes to PC's, I've seen
it all. Bonsai issues are another thing altogether. I'm a newbie with 10 of
Jims courses under my belt. I consider your helpful suggestions far more
than "indecisive advice". Thanks.

Mark

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Without seeing the boxwood we all can't be certain, but it doesn't sound like a
Kingsville boxwood to me. Sounds like one of the hardier species--Korean or English
perhaps. I have never heard of a Kingsville flowering, and the leaves sound too big.


This multitude of answers is making me nervous, because I bought an unmarked boxwood at a freaky little nursery, and I think it is a kingsville (pale yellow-green, small-leaved, fine textured). I'd like to overwinter it successfully. Factoring in everybo
dy's advice, it sounds like I should put it in the barn, but if Dale wants to weigh in, I'll listen to his advice with my usual rapt respect (wink, wink).

Nina. Maryland. Zone 6/7

PS- The freaky nursery was also selling Loropetallum (labeled as Fothergilla, but hey, close enough). I love Loropetallum, I think they are the prettiest shrubs in the whole entire world (I have seen one mediocre Loropetallum bonsai; anyone ever seen a go
od one?), but they are not reliably hardy here. So the question is: indoors? Outdoors with protection? Barn?

Why do we always desire the species that are borderline hardy?

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Thanks Craig;

Like I said, my wife has called it a Kingsville for 30 years.
She has absolutely no experience with growing trees, but she does have an
amazing memory.
However, it's entirely possible that she may be wrong.

In regards to the flowers, during the past 30 years, this is the first time
I've ever seen this tree produce flowers. They where extremely small, white,
and lasted a few days, about two months after I re-potted it.

I just went outside and measured the leaf size. They range from 1/4 inch to
1/2 inch. This years new growth was about two inches.

Do you have any suggestions where I might find good photo's of buxus leaves?
Maybe I should decide what this tree is, before getting everyone excited!

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of
Craig Cowing
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 7:51 AM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Dormancy for Kingswood Yardsai


Without seeing the boxwood we all can't be certain, but it doesn't sound
like a
Kingsville boxwood to me. Sounds like one of the hardier species--Korean or
English
perhaps. I have never heard of a Kingsville flowering, and the leaves sound
too big.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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Nina Shishkoff wrote:

Without seeing the boxwood we all can't be certain, but it doesn't sound like a
Kingsville boxwood to me. Sounds like one of the hardier species--Korean or English
perhaps. I have never heard of a Kingsville flowering, and the leaves sound too big.

This multitude of answers is making me nervous, because I bought an unmarked boxwood at a freaky little nursery, and I think it is a kingsville (pale yellow-green, small-leaved, fine textured). I'd like to overwinter it successfully. Factoring in every
body's advice, it sounds like I should put it in the barn, but if Dale wants to weigh in, I'll listen to his advice with my usual rapt respect (wink, wink).

Nina. Maryland. Zone 6/7

snip

Why do we always desire the species that are borderline hardy?

Nina:
As you know, Maryland had an unusually hard winter (would have been a piece of cake in Maine, but that's another story) and Anita Hawkins had been in the habit of wintering her Kingsville outdoors, but last winter really knocked it for a loop. It doesn't l
ook good, that's for sure. I've convinced her to winter her new ones indoors, per Iris Cohen's suggestion. I did that last year and it did swimmingly--it
didn't just survive, but thrived.

I have noticed that Kingsvilles generally have slightly curly leaves, if that's helpful. I'm not the expert though. Mike Page would be the person I'd consult with about Kingsvilles.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a sunset 37

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Did someone say my name?
I only read a few of these posts until I saw Nina's name. I was thinking of
her this AM while Watching Martha Stewart and wondered about if she still
did pumpkin mold work ( Marthas whole show was pumpkin/gourds)
anyway...
True Kingsvilles have a really tiny leaf that has a roll-up to it and are
pretty "pointy". All other dwarf varieties that I know don't have this
roll-up and many are more rounded on tips. I'll try to get a macro-pic today
and post. But, ( Korean, Morris Dwarf, etc) all make great bonsai and
hardiness at zone 6 sure wouldn't seem a problem to me. I keep all my
boxwoods in unheated greenhouse and since most are moderately small they
are usually burried ( the pots) down into mulch of other larger
mulchedin/boxed stuff. I have one really big Kingsville I got from Dan
Chiplis right after he left National Arb. in DC and I put it mulched into a
large hospital tray..
Dale

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nina Shishkoff"
Subject: [IBC] Dormancy for Kingswood Yardsai


Without seeing the boxwood we all can't be certain, but it doesn't sound
like a
Kingsville boxwood to me. Sounds like one of the hardier
species--Korean or English
perhaps. I have never heard of a Kingsville flowering, and the leaves
sound too big.


This multitude of answers is making me nervous, because I bought an
unmarked boxwood at a freaky little nursery, and I think it is a kingsville
(pale yellow-green, small-leaved, fine textured). I'd like to overwinter it
successfully. Factoring in everybody's advice, it sounds like I should put
it in the barn, but if Dale wants to weigh in, I'll listen to his advice
with my usual rapt respect (wink, wink).

Nina. Maryland. Zone 6/7

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I only read a few of these posts until I saw Nina's name. I was thinking of
her this AM while Watching Martha Stewart and wondered about if she still did pumpkin mold work ( Marthas whole show was pumpkin/gourds)
anyway...

Dear, dear Martha. Her magazine was doing a story on dandelions (Lord knows why) and needed a picture of a dandelion. Not just any picture- they wanted a live, blooming dandelion, and they wanted it NOW. "Now" was in October. Well, the Long Island lab
is 80 acres, so our weed scientists drove around in a golf cart and found a dandelion that was blooming, and the magazine sent a crew to take the picture, and paid the weed scientist $500.00 for his assistance. He bought a microwave and toaster for the la
b, and now we proudly show visitors the "Martha Stewart Kitchenette".


OK then. I'll put the boxwood in a box of mulch in the barn and it should be fine.

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Nina Shishkoff"

Subject: [IBC] Dormancy for Kingswood Yardsai
Dear, dear Martha. Her magazine was doing a story on dandelions (Lord
knows why) and needed a picture of a dandelion. Not just any picture- they
wanted a live, blooming dandelion, and they wanted it NOW. "Now" was in
October. Well, the Long Island lab is 80 acres, so our weed scientists
drove around in a golf cart and found a dandelion that was blooming, and the
magazine sent a crew to take the picture, and paid the weed scientist
$500.00 for his assistance. He bought a microwave and toaster for the lab,
and now we proudly show visitors the "Martha Stewart Kitchenette".

If you got it.....you might as well spend it!!
(especially if you made it in inside trading)

I would love to see "M's Crib" from the inside.
Dale

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