Hey all, been doing a bit of lurking here and you guys are all great, almost
any question I have had is already answered

So this is my first year growing ANYTHING but lo and behold, I absolutely
love it! It is wonderfully relaxing to do a bit of work in my garden every
morning before work while having a coffee (is it ok to put coffee ends in my
plants?)

This year I simply have about a dozen planters in my backyard with tomatoes,
cucumbers, zucchini (no hex for me :-D) eggplant, hot peppers and peas.

Next year what I WANT to do is a big veggie garden in my front yard.

Here is what I need help with. I have a mature tree in the front yard (good
to diffuse light for a lot of veggies during mid day sun) and right now I
have some perennials at the edges and grass in the middle (I live in the
city, small front yard, about 20'x25') what I want to do is pull out all the
perennials and rototill the whole thing, get rid of the grass and put down a
LOT of good earth. I have been told by a couple of people that this would
not work because the tree would take all the good stuff from the soil and
not leave anything left for my veggies but these are the same people that
said that I couldn't grow veggies from the planters that I have so I don't
really believe them.

Any input/advice is greatly appreciated

All the best
Dave

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:32:49 GMT, "Lattés"
wrote:


Here is what I need help with. I have a mature tree in the front yard (good
to diffuse light for a lot of veggies during mid day sun) and right now I
have some perennials at the edges and grass in the middle (I live in the
city, small front yard, about 20'x25') what I want to do is pull out all the
perennials and rototill the whole thing, get rid of the grass and put down a
LOT of good earth. I have been told by a couple of people that this would
not work because the tree would take all the good stuff from the soil and
not leave anything left for my veggies

Most vegetables don't need to be shaded from mid-day sun. They are,
with a few exceptions, "full sun" plants, which means a *minimum* of
6hrs direct sun a day, and more is better. "Dappled shade" is *not*
for vegetables.

Tilling around a tree will probably kill either the tree, the tiller,
or both. You didn't say what kind of a tree it was, or how large, but
there's a good chance there are sturdy roots just below the surface at
least out to the 'drip line' (the tips of the branches).

If you've been lurking, you may have read of 'neighborly' disputes
that seem destined for the courts. While I agree that "lawn" is a
waste of space, and would much rather see that space used more
productively, your neighbors may feel otherwise. Just a point to
consider.

For a "really big" veggie garden, you might look for a community
garden arrangement in your area. They're a lot more common in Europe,
but not unknown here. Congrats on your success with containers.

Most vegetables don't need to be shaded from mid-day sun. They are,
with a few exceptions, "full sun" plants, which means a *minimum* of
6hrs direct sun a day, and more is better. "Dappled shade" is *not*
for vegetables.

Thanks, I still think I will go ahead with it though and go with veggies
that do like "dappled shade" If you have any suggestions that would be
wonderful

Tilling around a tree will probably kill either the tree, the tiller,
or both. You didn't say what kind of a tree it was, or how large, but
there's a good chance there are sturdy roots just below the surface at
least out to the 'drip line' (the tips of the branches).

Hmmm... ok next is to figure out how to go about getting rid of the grass
and getting the soil growable.

If you've been lurking, you may have read of 'neighborly' disputes
that seem destined for the courts. While I agree that "lawn" is a
waste of space, and would much rather see that space used more
productively, your neighbors may feel otherwise. Just a point to
consider.

My neighborhood is actually pretty good like that, I'm not really in the
suburbs and if you walk up my street you get to see EVERY type of front lawn
you can imagine, from rock gardens, to veggies, to trees, to flowers to
weeds

For a "really big" veggie garden, you might look for a community
garden arrangement in your area. They're a lot more common in Europe,
but not unknown here. Congrats on your success with containers.

There are actually a lot of community gardens in Toronto but the problem is
that everyone I know that has had one has not done too well with their spot.
Partly because local homeless people harvest the veggies before they get to
and they often get overwatered because people get the idea of "Oh, I will
water their garden for them and be nice" DOH!

Thanks for the kudos on the containers, I am personally quite surprised but
it is really encouraging. I guess I have some kind of green thumb because I
killed my peas transplanting them and took the dried peas in the pods and
planted them and they all grew! Whodathunkit?

Thanks so much you guys are great!
dave

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:17:07 GMT, "Lattés"
wrote:

Most vegetables don't need to be shaded from mid-day sun. They are,
with a few exceptions, "full sun" plants, which means a *minimum* of
6hrs direct sun a day, and more is better. "Dappled shade" is *not*
for vegetables.

Thanks, I still think I will go ahead with it though and go with veggies
that do like "dappled shade" If you have any suggestions that would be
wonderful

Sorry. I've spent my gardening years seeking every spot of full sun I
could find. Perhaps others could give suggestions. All I can say is
tomatoes, peppers, melons, okra, squash, beans, and most herbs -- in
fact, anything that has flowers and 'fruit' requires lots of sun. Even
'cool weather' crops -- peas, lettuce, greens, cabbagy things (can't
spell brassica) don't want shade, just don't like hot weather.

If you've been lurking, you may have read of 'neighborly' disputes
that seem destined for the courts. While I agree that "lawn" is a
waste of space, and would much rather see that space used more
productively, your neighbors may feel otherwise. Just a point to
consider.

My neighborhood is actually pretty good like that, I'm not really in the
suburbs and if you walk up my street you get to see EVERY type of front lawn
you can imagine, from rock gardens, to veggies, to trees, to flowers to
weeds

Cool. I live in Lawnland, so must cooperate, at least in front. I've
seen some *very* attractive and well-maintained veg/flower gardens
that would, IMHO, in no way lower 'property values' anywhere.

Thanks for the kudos on the containers, I am personally quite surprised but
it is really encouraging. I guess I have some kind of green thumb because I
killed my peas transplanting them and took the dried peas in the pods and
planted them and they all grew! Whodathunkit?

Check Pat Meadows' posts. She's grown *everything* in a container (not
to the exclusion of in-ground). Don't transplant peas! Put 'em
where you want 'em. As I have reported before, I threw some spent
sugarsnap vines on my compost pile where seeds grew about 1' before
frost, overwintered, and provided a terrific spring harvest. (Zone
something between 7 & 8).

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:53:34 GMT, Frogleg
wrote:



Thanks for the kudos on the containers, I am personally quite surprised but
it is really encouraging. I guess I have some kind of green thumb because I
killed my peas transplanting them and took the dried peas in the pods and
planted them and they all grew! Whodathunkit?

Check Pat Meadows' posts.

He can't. I use the 'x-no-archive' switch and Google
therefore does not archive my posts. I have (what I
consider) good reasons for doing this that are not relevant
here.

She's grown *everything* in a container (not
to the exclusion of in-ground).

Not everything, but quite a bit.

Here's a list (and I'm likely forgetting some things):

eggplant
peppers - hot and sweet
tomatoes
lettuce
Asian greens, including:
bok choy
choy sum
hon tsai tai
shungiku (edible crysanthemum)
Chinese cabbage
broccoli
carrots
beets
chard
bush beans
rosemary (comes indoors in winter)
collard greens
basil
Malabar spinach (which as it turns out, I don't like, so I
won't grow it again)

All the above are plants I've grown in large pots on our
deck.

When I lived in an apartment, I had a half-whisky-barrel
full of herbs on the patio. This was great, the herbs were
happy, and it was decorative and right outside the kitchen
door. I wish I had several of the half-whisky-barrels now!

In one sense, our entire garden is now a 'container garden'
as we are using tires for raised beds.

Pat

In article ,
Frogleg wrote:

Most vegetables don't need to be shaded from mid-day sun. They are,
with a few exceptions, "full sun" plants, which means a *minimum* of
6hrs direct sun a day, and more is better. "Dappled shade" is *not*
for vegetables.


Well it really depends where you live and how hot it gets and the site,
don't you think? We grow a number of veggies in partial shade here in
Missouri Z 5b with great results. Summer temps here are pretty much
high 90s all of July and August. Our tomatoes and peppers that are
partially shaded do far better than those in full sun and never get
scalded either. They do, however, get more than 6 hours of sun but they
are very shaded in the afternoon. This particular garden sits on the
edge of a woods.

Sorry. I've spent my gardening years seeking every spot of full sun I
could find. Perhaps others could give suggestions. All I can say is
tomatoes, peppers, melons, okra, squash, beans, and most herbs -- in
fact, anything that has flowers and 'fruit' requires lots of sun. Even
'cool weather' crops -- peas, lettuce, greens, cabbagy things (can't
spell brassica) don't want shade, just don't like hot weather.


A friend of mine who used to work on a tomato farm in New Zealand said that
diffused sunlight is best for them, (IE using a corrugated piece of
semi-transparent fibre glass over top of them) do you think that the tree
would do about the same thing?

"Lattés" wrote in message le.rogers.com...
Sorry. I've spent my gardening years seeking every spot of full sun I
could find. Perhaps others could give suggestions. All I can say is
tomatoes, peppers, melons, okra, squash, beans, and most herbs -- in
fact, anything that has flowers and 'fruit' requires lots of sun. Even
'cool weather' crops -- peas, lettuce, greens, cabbagy things (can't
spell brassica) don't want shade, just don't like hot weather.


A friend of mine who used to work on a tomato farm in New Zealand said that
diffused sunlight is best for them, (IE using a corrugated piece of
semi-transparent fibre glass over top of them) do you think that the tree
would do about the same thing?

Lattes, you could not be much more than a newbie. Follow people's
advice. All that good soil will go to waste, possibly because of the
tree, but mostly because it is in the wrong place. Full sun is far
more important than good soil.

Lattés wrote:


Next year what I WANT to do is a big veggie garden in my front yard.

If you are in a suburban area at all, you are likely in for a rude surprise.
As the French say "bo chance".

Here is what I need help with. I have a mature tree in the front yard
(good to diffuse light for a lot of veggies during mid day sun) and right
now I have some perennials at the edges and grass in the middle (I live in
the city, small front yard, about 20'x25') what I want to do is pull out
all the perennials and rototill the whole thing, get rid of the grass and
put down a LOT of good earth.

I have been told by a couple of people that
this would not work because the tree would take all the good stuff from
the soil and not leave anything left for my veggies but these are the same
people that said that I couldn't grow veggies from the planters that I
have so I don't really believe them.

Do not listen to those people. They are defective.

Any input/advice is greatly appreciated


Loose leaf lettuces will tolerate some shade. Orange Mint asks for it. Not
too many things will welcome shade.

All the best
Dave

--
Zone 5b (Detroit, MI)
I do not post my address to news groups.

Don't bother with digging up the flowers or tilling around the tree.
I live in the woods. I simply plant all my veggies in plastic shopping
bags. I put a few holes in them for drainage. Since the bags have
handles I can move them about anywhere that I desire.
Everything that I have planted has done great this year!!!! Good
luck.

"chileBeasT" wrote in message
...
Don't bother with digging up the flowers or tilling around the tree.
I live in the woods. I simply plant all my veggies in plastic shopping
bags. I put a few holes in them for drainage. Since the bags have
handles I can move them about anywhere that I desire.
Everything that I have planted has done great this year!!!! Good
luck.


Hmm, gotta try that, just shopping bags?

"Lattés" writes:
"chileBeasT" wrote in message
...
Don't bother with digging up the flowers or tilling around the tree.
I live in the woods. I simply plant all my veggies in plastic shopping
bags. I put a few holes in them for drainage. Since the bags have
handles I can move them about anywhere that I desire.
Everything that I have planted has done great this year!!!! Good
luck.

Hmm, gotta try that, just shopping bags?

Interesting. I reckon you should at least avoid the biodegradable bags!
--
John Savage (news address invalid; keep news replies in newsgroup)