On Apr 25, 10:26 am, wrote:
are those missing scales on the "good side"?

There are some missing on both sides. The left side ("driver's side")
of the fish is what I'm calling the good side.

I had major problems keeping ammonia and nitrites under control
yesterday in the 10 gal tank. It seems to work for about a day or two
and then even with water changes it's hard to keep on top of that for
a fish that large (it's over a foot long nose to tail). So, I ended up
getting a more hospitable hospital tank. It's a 46 gallon tank that
I've set up with an oversized filter & circulation and lots of air.
The tank was finally acclimated early this morning so I moved the fish
over there.

I did not dip last night because of the chaos of setting up this tank
and preparing a filter-caught fish for the smaller tank. As I
mentioned in another post, I found this fish in my bottom drain filter
basket with another fish that looked like it had been ripped apart.
I'm not sure if that happened on the trip to the basket or earlier,
but I've never seen a fish torn up like that just by being in the
filter basket. In any case, one survived, and one didn't. After
letting the fin damaged fish relax over night in an aerated bucket
with some salt and slime coat additive, I did a salt dip on that fish
and put it in the 10 gallon tank (newly set up). It's a much better
fit for that tank and seems comfortable.

Busy times.

Dave

The left side ("driver's side") of the fish is what I'm calling the good side.

To be clear, that's the "U.S. driver's side." : )

Dave

I just did the 3rd T-N dip, and I noticed when I returned the fish to
the tank that its bad eye is now completely filled with blood. It's as
if the black was replaced by a big purple ball. I didn't notice any
problems during the dip.

Stress induced? Will it clear?

Thanks,

Dave

More info on that eye. It sticks way out compared to the other one.
I'd kind of noticed that with the "bad spot" I was seeing, but now
looking at the fish head on it's very clear that one eye sticks way
out compare to the other. I'd say an 1/8" more at least. I'll get an
image posted later.

I also just noticed that the top fin has a small (1/8" ?) tear about
1" back from where the fin starts. It's on the outer edge of the fin,
so the outer edge of the fin is not connected at that point. I'm
concerned that it might tear more. Is there anything to do about that?
Some way to bind it back together or something?

Thanks,

Dave

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:57:31 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote:

More info on that eye. It sticks way out compared to the other one.
I'd kind of noticed that with the "bad spot" I was seeing, but now
looking at the fish head on it's very clear that one eye sticks way
out compare to the other. I'd say an 1/8" more at least. I'll get an
image posted later.

I also just noticed that the top fin has a small (1/8" ?) tear about
1" back from where the fin starts. It's on the outer edge of the fin,
so the outer edge of the fin is not connected at that point. I'm
concerned that it might tear more. Is there anything to do about that?
Some way to bind it back together or something?

Thanks,

Dave

Let me know when picture is up regarding the eye. As far as the fins, I
wouldn't worry about it. I think it is time for the fish to heal-thy-self.
You've done all that can be done, imo. I think the fish needs to rest.

Ingrid mentioned putting cream on the missing scales areas, but I don't
think that is necessary with the tricide-neo dips. Also, one of the
mistakes people make is cleaning a wound more than once. Ideally clean it
good the first time, treat and leave it alone, as continued cleaning or
doctoring can remove the tender scab cells of healing. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

The latest pictures are up.

http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html
See the 4/26 images.

The white "healing areas" on the fish are very noticable now.

I was so disappointed with with the new problems last night that I
waited until this morning to take pictures. The eye changed overnight,
so that worked out. Most of the blood has now cleared and what I'm
seeing is almost like a callous of skin covering the eye that's
beginning to come off. I'd noticed the cover before but thought it was
just a cloudy eye covering, even though it "pooched" out a bit. Now I
think it's more like what I just described--maybe some protective
build-up after initial trauma to the eye or something.

There's a picture of the fin tear, which looks really minor but it's a
pretty high stress part of the fin which is why I was initially
concerned. I think you're right about letting the fish relax. The more
handling, as careful as I'm trying to be, the more likely something
else will get damaged. Plus, the extra stress does neither of us any
good.

I do have Bio-bandage gel and Malachite Green now. Given that things
are healing well, I'm not planning on using those. I do wonder if
there's something I should put on that eye area or if I should just
let things run their course.

Thanks,

Dave

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:35:37 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote:

The latest pictures are up.

http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html
See the 4/26 images.


I told the folks at the KHA bulletin board to take a look, but I'm thinking
a wait & rest now is in order. I'll let you know if they say different.
~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

if you are in the US you gotta call Jo Ann 251-649-4790. I have never seen this.
Ingrid

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:57:21 EDT, Pond Addict wrote:

I just did the 3rd T-N dip, and I noticed when I returned the fish to
the tank that its bad eye is now completely filled with blood. It's as
if the black was replaced by a big purple ball. I didn't notice any
problems during the dip.

Stress induced? Will it clear?

Thanks,

Dave

the torn fin is due to bad water conditions. it will heal in clean water. Ingrid

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:57:31 EDT, Pond Addict wrote:

I also just noticed that the top fin has a small (1/8" ?) tear about
1" back from where the fin starts. It's on the outer edge of the fin,
so the outer edge of the fin is not connected at that point. I'm
concerned that it might tear more. Is there anything to do about that?
Some way to bind it back together or something?

Thanks,

Dave

I wonder if I could use your series of pictures to show healing?

it is important now to quit adding stuff to the tank and concentrate on pristine
water conditions. Ingrid

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:35:37 EDT, Pond Addict wrote:
The latest pictures are up.
http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html
See the 4/26 images.

what is tricide neo????

I've posted some more pictures:

http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html
See the 4/28 images.

I have not dipped the fish since 4/25/08. It's simply in the 78°F .3%
salted water.

It has been doing much better, but the eye still has a cover of
skin(?) over it. I can now see the "real" eye underneath that. The
fish appears to be checking it's bad eye out in the tank reflections,
but that's probably my overactive imagination.

what is tricide neo????
Here's a pretty good link about Tricide-Neo. It's expensive, but I
have to say it works as well as they say.
http://www.ponddoc.com/WhatsUpDoc/Pr...TricideNeo.htm

My package says, "when added to 5 gallons of distilled water, solution
contains:
8mM USP Disodium ethylenediaminetetraacetate dihydrate,20 mM USP 2-
Amino-2-hydroxymethyl-1,3-propanediol, and 9.5 gm USP Neomycin
Sulfate."

I have no idea what any of that means. They say it punches holes in
bacteria so that the solution's antibiotics flood them.

You can find other places that sell it as well if you Google, but for
sure, it's damn expensive. It comes as a foil envelope of powder that
you mix with distilled water. It's available for a 1 gallon and 5
gallon mix. I got the 5 gallon size because I didn't know about
dipping fish in plastic bags when I ordered.

I wonder if I could use your series of pictures to show healing?
Sure, go for it.

it is important now to quit adding stuff to the tank and concentrate on pr
istine
water conditions.
I'm not adding anything to the water other than maintaining the salt
and I'm doing daily partial water changes to keep things comfy. The
change to the bigger tank made a huge difference water quality-wise.

Slight change of subject but is there anything I can do to help my two
fish with damaged fins heal better? They're in .3% salted 78°F water
as well. Is time the only healer for them?

Dave

Hi,

I was emailing with Jo Ann and she indicated that the eye problem
could be from trauma to the eye, or possibly from something called a
"brain fluke." I can't find any information on brain flukes but she
said that if that's the case, a ball would appear in the eye globe.
That sounds like what I'm seeing. Since the salt level I'm using won't
kill flukes, should I be getting some Prazi or something? Just to rule
out or exterminate the flukes if they are there?

Has anyone had experience with brain flukes and/or are there images
somewhere that I could compare?

Thanks,

Dave

I've also seen information about eye flukes online. I'm not sure if
that's what's going on or not. I wish I could figure this out, but a
visual examination of the eye isn't giving me any clues. This can't be
the only fish in the world to have this disorder...

This is what it looks like to me (top-down view):

___++ ---- what looks like a rough whitish bit of skin,
easily visible.
[ ] ---- protrusion. Almost swollen with fluid?
yellowish covering
- - - - - - ---- where I think the eye would normally end
---- [ #### ] --- pupil, etc. ------------------------
/
|
| Top of fish
|
\
--- [ #### ] -------------------------------------------------
-----------

Hopefully that doesn't get reformatted too horribly during posting.

Just a bit of history on this. The fish was having a problem with this
eye in the pond before I brought it in. When I first found it behind
the basket, the eye was covered with a yellowish cover and the actual
eye was hard to see. After a few days of being in the pond, it
appeared to be getting better (the covering got clearer), but the
"cover" was still protruding.

After the fish was in quarantine, the eye had this covering but
appeared to work fine and was mostly clear. The fish moved the eyeball
and it saw things with that. After returning from the third dip of
Tricide-Neo (perhaps a coincidence or a handling issue) the entire
protrusion was larger and full of blood. I also believe the bump on
the end appeared then. The blood mostly cleared overnight. Since then,
(4 days ago) there hasn't been a lot change. The bubble over the eye
has remained large, yellow and full of fluid. It obscures the eye
enough that I don't think the fish can see much through it. However,
in a recent picture I posted, you can definitely see the "real eye"
with the pupil underneath all this, where it would normally be near
the fish's side. In other words, that part itself isn't protruding.

Would something like an eye fluke cause the swelling I'm seeing? Or,
would that simply be lodged in what I'd call the "real eye" which is
the part with the black in it? It very much looks to me like the "real
eye" is underneath this bubble untouched. It also does not look like
the bubble is the normal covering of the eye. I mean, it extends
almost 1/4" out and the material looks pretty thick and yellow.

If this were caused by trauma, how long would you expect it to take
for the swelling to drop?

Any ideas/guesses welcome.

Thanks,

Dave

If fluid filled, I guess I would clip and drain it. I've never heard of a
brain fluke (but that's not to say there aren't any). I assume the Prazi
would take care of it. I think fancy koi outlet sells it in a liquid form
now, that might be best for a tank. ~ jan


On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:00:54 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote:

I've also seen information about eye flukes online. I'm not sure if
that's what's going on or not. I wish I could figure this out, but a
visual examination of the eye isn't giving me any clues. This can't be
the only fish in the world to have this disorder...

This is what it looks like to me (top-down view):

___++ ---- what looks like a rough whitish bit of skin,
easily visible.
[ ] ---- protrusion. Almost swollen with fluid?
yellowish covering
- - - - - - ---- where I think the eye would normally end
---- [ #### ] --- pupil, etc. ------------------------
/
|
| Top of fish
|
\
--- [ #### ] -------------------------------------------------
-----------

Hopefully that doesn't get reformatted too horribly during posting.

Just a bit of history on this. The fish was having a problem with this
eye in the pond before I brought it in. When I first found it behind
the basket, the eye was covered with a yellowish cover and the actual
eye was hard to see. After a few days of being in the pond, it
appeared to be getting better (the covering got clearer), but the
"cover" was still protruding.

After the fish was in quarantine, the eye had this covering but
appeared to work fine and was mostly clear. The fish moved the eyeball
and it saw things with that. After returning from the third dip of
Tricide-Neo (perhaps a coincidence or a handling issue) the entire
protrusion was larger and full of blood. I also believe the bump on
the end appeared then. The blood mostly cleared overnight. Since then,
(4 days ago) there hasn't been a lot change. The bubble over the eye
has remained large, yellow and full of fluid. It obscures the eye
enough that I don't think the fish can see much through it. However,
in a recent picture I posted, you can definitely see the "real eye"
with the pupil underneath all this, where it would normally be near
the fish's side. In other words, that part itself isn't protruding.

Would something like an eye fluke cause the swelling I'm seeing? Or,
would that simply be lodged in what I'd call the "real eye" which is
the part with the black in it? It very much looks to me like the "real
eye" is underneath this bubble untouched. It also does not look like
the bubble is the normal covering of the eye. I mean, it extends
almost 1/4" out and the material looks pretty thick and yellow.

If this were caused by trauma, how long would you expect it to take
for the swelling to drop?

Any ideas/guesses welcome.

Thanks,

Dave
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us