For those interested in the questions raised recently, this is a good web
site to get some info on the matter.
http://www.romanin.com/pages/romanin.php?lang=en

Many years ago, I knew the Charmolue family pretty well and have been
fortunate enough to drink some of their delicious Chateau Montrose on many
occasions. If this didn't work, Jean Louis wouldn't be doing it!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

Sacha wrote:
For those interested in the questions raised recently, this is a good web
site to get some info on the matter.
http://www.romanin.com/pages/romanin.php?lang=en
Many years ago, I knew the Charmolue family pretty well and have been
fortunate enough to drink some of their delicious Chateau Montrose on many
occasions. If this didn't work, Jean Louis wouldn't be doing it!

Off course they wouldn't. It's something I grew up with and it becomes
second nature. When I started getting interested in Permaculture, my
family just compared it to biodynamics - because that's what it is
really. I spent a lot of time in le Crau du Roi as a kid. My cousin (in
Marseille) wanted to call my nephew Romanin but it was decided to call
him Romain, which is as beautiful )

"La Puce" wrote after Sacha wrote:
For those interested in the questions raised recently, this is a good web
site to get some info on the matter.
http://www.romanin.com/pages/romanin.php?lang=en
Many years ago, I knew the Charmolue family pretty well and have been
fortunate enough to drink some of their delicious Chateau Montrose on
many
occasions. If this didn't work, Jean Louis wouldn't be doing it!

Off course they wouldn't. It's something I grew up with and it becomes
second nature. When I started getting interested in Permaculture, my
family just compared it to biodynamics - because that's what it is
really. I spent a lot of time in le Crau du Roi as a kid. My cousin (in
Marseille) wanted to call my nephew Romanin but it was decided to call
him Romain, which is as beautiful )


So you named him after a type of lettuce? :-)

--
Regards
Bob H
17mls W. of London.UK

Bob Hobden wrote:
So you named him after a type of lettuce? :-)

) But it's Romaine, Bob. You had me giggling today. I ventured into
the england.rec and sow that post by this chap claiming to grow veggies
by the grace of baby jesus. I wonder if there's a calendar for it too
....

"La Puce" wrote in message

When I started getting interested in Permaculture, my
family just compared it to biodynamics - because that's what it is
really.

It isn't. Permaculturists don't bury cow horns full of cow manure, or
practice planting by the moon or use BD 500, or any of the other
formulas used by those who follow biodynamics

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message om
from "La Puce" contains these words:


Farm1 wrote:
"La Puce" wrote in message
When I started getting interested in Permaculture, my
family just compared it to biodynamics - because that's what it is
really.

It isn't. Permaculturists don't bury cow horns full of cow manure, or
practice planting by the moon or use BD 500, or any of the other
formulas used by those who follow biodynamics

Yes, permaculture is very close to biodynamics.

No, it isn't, as Fran just pointed out.

Also
the philosophy of permies and biodynamics are identical, a holistic and
spriritual approach to nature and the human being.

No, they are not identical philosophies.

Both are based on
the research by Steiner -

Misleading rubbish.

Permaculture is not based on Steiner or his theory of anthroposophy.
Pc was developed in Australia by Mollison and Holmgren. It would be hard
to imagine two people less interested in fairies, angels devas, auras
and the occult.

Janet.

Permaculture cover the gambit of society and economics incorporating such
things as town planning, construction and transport, monetary systems etc
etc. I have not seen that sort of thing come out of bio-dynamics.

rob

Farm1 wrote:
"La Puce" wrote in message
When I started getting interested in Permaculture, my
family just compared it to biodynamics - because that's what it is
really.

It isn't. Permaculturists don't bury cow horns full of cow manure, or
practice planting by the moon or use BD 500, or any of the other
formulas used by those who follow biodynamics

Sorry for the delay - I was away in Danmark and Sweden for a few days
and it was a fabulous trip.

Yes, permaculture is very close to biodynamics. I have used planting by
the moon for years, but not entirely rigid to the calendar though. Also
the philosophy of permies and biodynamics are identical, a holistic and
spriritual approach to nature and the human being. Both are based on
the research by Steiner - in my permaculture favourite place,
Middlewood near Lancaster where I've spent sometime, a Steiner school
has been ran there since the 60s. Both design for sustainability,
ecology and care of the earth and it's people. HTH

Janet Baraclough wrote:
No, it isn't, as Fran just pointed out.

Yes it is. There's lots of similarities which I have pointed out to you
and others that I haven't.

Permaculture is not based on Steiner or his theory of anthroposophy.

'Based' is not the word I should have used. I should have said
influenced. Explain to me why so many permies that I know, and I know
quite a few, do regard Steiner's research as a positive addition to the
permaculture movement?

Pc was developed in Australia by Mollison and Holmgren.

Yes, that's right.

It would be hard
to imagine two people less interested in fairies, angels devas, auras
and the occult.

But then again from someone who thinks she knows what people think, you
ought to point out that this is your opinion. My early email pointed
out to many similarities but you have, strangely or perhaps not, snip
it.

"La Puce" wrote in message
Janet Baraclough wrote:
No, it isn't, as Fran just pointed out.

Yes it is. There's lots of similarities which I have pointed out to
you
and others that I haven't.

I haven't seen any post where you mentioned similarities. I've seen
one post where you made an erroneous statement but none where you
mentioned any specific similarities.

Permaculture is not based on Steiner or his theory of
anthroposophy.

'Based' is not the word I should have used. I should have said
influenced.

Nope. I have "Permaculture One" which is the first book produced by
Holmgren and Mollison and it is based on Holmgren's thesis. Steiner
is not mentioned in the bibliography but a well known Australian
farmer and plough designer by the name of P. A. Yeomans is the most
mentioned. Other than him, names you may recognise are Ken Kerns, J.
I. Rodale and Lawrence Hills.

In what is known as the "bible" in Permaculture terms (ie Mollison's
book "Permaculture") the reference section mentions people like
Fukuoka and Sir Albert Howard but again Steiner is not mentioned, nor
does the name appear in the Index..

"La Puce" wrote in message
Farm1 wrote:
"La Puce" wrote in message
When I started getting interested in Permaculture, my
family just compared it to biodynamics - because that's what it
is
really.

It isn't. Permaculturists don't bury cow horns full of cow
manure, or
practice planting by the moon or use BD 500, or any of the other
formulas used by those who follow biodynamics

Sorry for the delay - I was away in Danmark and Sweden for a few
days
and it was a fabulous trip.

Yes, permaculture is very close to biodynamics.

Both have a base in organic principles but that is about where the
similarity ends.

I have used planting by
the moon for years, but not entirely rigid to the calendar though.
Also
the philosophy of permies and biodynamics are identical, a holistic
and
spriritual approach to nature and the human being. Both are based on
the research by Steiner

Steiner has had nothing to do with the development of Permaculture.
Permaculture was originally the idea of Australians Holmgren and
Mollison and Bill Mollison and the similarities between Permaculture
and Biodynamics are about as similar Islam and Christianity. Both
have philosophies and dogma telling adherents how they should conduct
their lives but that does not make them identical.

In reply to La Puce ) who wrote this in
, I, Marvo, say :

Janet Baraclough wrote:
No, it isn't, as Fran just pointed out.

Yes it is. There's lots of similarities which I have pointed out to
you and others that I haven't.

Permaculture is not based on Steiner or his theory of
anthroposophy.

'Based' is not the word I should have used. I should have said
influenced. Explain to me why so many permies that I know, and I know
quite a few, do regard Steiner's research as a positive addition to
the permaculture movement?

You may be forgiven - if I was writing in French I would probably use the
wrong word, quite often. But I would know what I meant :-)

Pc was developed in Australia by Mollison and Holmgren.

Yes, that's right.

It would be hard
to imagine two people less interested in fairies, angels devas, auras
and the occult.

But then again from someone who thinks she knows what people think,
you ought to point out that this is your opinion. My early email
pointed out to many similarities but you have, strangely or perhaps
not, snip it.

JMHO.

Farm1 wrote:
I haven't seen any post where you mentioned similarities. I've seen
one post where you made an erroneous statement but none where you
mentioned any specific similarities.

Erroneous statement! Listen to you. Who do you think you are? You
confuse reading books with actually doing something. I've read you on a
few forums, notably alt.permaculture a long while ago - I'm sure you
are devoted to what you're doing, but please do drop the aggression or
I'm not bothering replying to you.

Read my second post in this thread - you will then understand where I'm
coming from. Also lets mention that you are a great pal of Janet and
you will do all you can to be abusive to me. I have made a mistake with
a word - if you were that interested you will have forgiven me. But you
are more interested with having a conflict with me.

Nope. I have "Permaculture One"

Yes, you have a couple of books and I have many projects under my belt,
lots of fantastic contacts with beautiful people across Europe and a
permaculture certificate. When you can talk about what *you* have done,
and what *you* have experienced rather than quote from your books and
references, then I'll talk with you.

Uncle Marvo wrote:
You may be forgiven - if I was writing in French I would probably use the
wrong word, quite often. But I would know what I meant :-)

Hello there Uncle! I always mean what I say and never ever regret a
word. If I make a mistake I apologise. If I have made a mistake on
purpose there's usually a smile next to it. I'm really not complicated.
I've been writting a lot of French recently and I'm a bit muddled atm.
Blimey ... these wimmin ... cob webs I tell you ;o)

"La Puce" wrote
Farm1 wrote:
I haven't seen any post where you mentioned similarities. I've seen
one post where you made an erroneous statement but none where you
mentioned any specific similarities.

Erroneous statement! Listen to you. Who do you think you are? You
confuse reading books with actually doing something. I've read you on
a few forums, notably alt.permaculture a long while ago - I'm sure you
are devoted to what you're doing, but please do drop the aggression or
I'm not bothering replying to you.

Farm1 wrote nothing that was either aggressive or abusive - unlike
yourself.

--
Sue

"La Puce" wrote in message
Farm1 wrote:

I haven't seen any post where you mentioned similarities. I've
seen
one post where you made an erroneous statement but none where you
mentioned any specific similarities.

Erroneous statement! Listen to you. Who do you think you are?

You clearly don't want to admit it but you DID make erroneous
statements. And you have been told this by 3 people.

Biodynamics is based on the work of Steiner: Permaculture is not.
And since you ask (in what many people would consider to be an
offensive manner) "who I think I am", then I'll tell you that I think,
and know, that I am someone who knows the difference between
Biodynamics and Permaculture. Both have an organic focus but
Permaculture is not based on the work of Steiner and nor do
Permaculturalists rely on the various Formula 500-508 and other
techniques that the Biodynamics adherants do.

You
confuse reading books with actually doing something.

I thought that explaining to you in a manner that would enable you to
check on what I say might help you to clear up your misunderstanding.
I can see now that I was wrong to try to give you facts. You have a
particular view and being given the facts and thus being able to check
them doesn't appear to matter to you.

I've read you on a
few forums, notably alt.permaculture a long while ago - I'm sure you
are devoted to what you're doing, but please do drop the aggression
or
I'm not bothering replying to you.

I have also read you here. I've also read you when you very nastily
chose to stalk Janet into another ng where she posted. You have acted
offensively, aggressively and very nastily in other places. A real
case of pot, kettle black.

Read my second post in this thread - you will then understand where
I'm
coming from. Also lets mention that you are a great pal of Janet and
you will do all you can to be abusive to me.

Janet and I have posted in a number of differing ngs for years. I've
found her to be straight down the line. No dissembling or lying.

If I recall correctly, you were treated aggressively and abusively by
all decent and normal residents of that other newsgroup when you
deliberately and nastily chose to stalk Janet. I consider it ill
manners at the very least to stalk anyone either in the flesh or by
way of the internet. Such behaviour deserves a certain amount of
aggression in response as that is the only mechanism open in this
la-la land of the ether. It's the only form of moderation of
appalling behaviour that is available.

You made the choice to stalk someone and got what you deserve.

I have made a mistake with
a word - if you were that interested you will have forgiven me. But
you
are more interested with having a conflict with me.

You didn't merely make a mistake with a word. You made erroneous
statements. You may not have understood or been confused but if given
facts in a response and you can then check those facts for yourself
and you see this as aggression, then so be it.

Nope. I have "Permaculture One"

Yes, you have a couple of books and I have many projects under my
belt,
lots of fantastic contacts with beautiful people across Europe and a
permaculture certificate. When you can talk about what *you* have
done,
and what *you* have experienced rather than quote from your books
and
references, then I'll talk with you.

Well that excuse saves you from having to check your understanding of
the topic but it doesn't enhance your reputation for being accurate or
correct.