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#31
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Damons? Plums?
The message
from "FarmI" ask@itshall be given contains these words: P. insitia also has 48 chromosomes and within this group are the bullace, the damson, the mirabelles and the St. Julians. Mirabelles widely grown in France mainly for preserves and tarts, better cooked than fresh. And make an excellent plum brandy... St. Julians mainly used as rootstock, their plums much like damsons 'and the quetsche also known as the German prune, or Carlsbad plum, is another plum of the insitia tye, used widely as a culinary fruit.' Which makes an even better plum brandy innit. There is also an interesting discussion on archaelogical finds of plum stones and that 'no domestica plum stones...have been found under the ashes of Pompeii' and that the plums mentioned by Pliny (who wrote of the plum from Damascus)were 'all insitias, or if domesticas, were recent introductions to Europe' Interesting topic. Especially the distillate. -- Rusty Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk Separator in search of a sig |
#32
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Damons? Plums?
On 15/8/08 21:32, in article
, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote: "Sacha" wrote in message We had some people in today who live in France and they were looking for Damsons which they say seem to be unknown there (Paris and Corsica) This got us onto what is the difference between a Damson and a Plum because both are Prunus and probably domestica? I understand that damsons tend to make smaller trees but if anyone can explain in terms of flavour or use, enquiring minds would be really grateful. ;-) You do ask some interesting questions. I just mentally chuck them all into the 'prunus' bin in my brain, so was interested to find out more after reading the discussions. But I must say, the answers you got on this one!!!!.......they had the head of this little black duck spinning....... snip There is also an interesting discussion on archaelogical finds of plum stones and that 'no domestica plum stones...have been found under the ashes of Pompeii' and that the plums mentioned by Pliny (who wrote of the plum from Damascus)were 'all insitias, or if domesticas, were recent introductions to Europe' Interesting topic. Wow! Talk about getting the bit between your teeth........ ;-)) Thank you so muchfor going to all this trouble and producing such interesting info. I especially like the bit above about no such plum stones being found at Pompeii - for some reason human details like that make a topic much more interesting to me! -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon |
#33
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Damons? Plums?
In article , Sacha writes: | | Wow! Talk about getting the bit between your teeth........ ;-)) Thank you | so muchfor going to all this trouble and producing such interesting info. I | especially like the bit above about no such plum stones being found at | Pompeii - for some reason human details like that make a topic much more | interesting to me! What baffles me is why Prunus domestica wasn't more important in Neolithic times (at least not in the UK). The vast majority of the 'plum' stones found in Neolithic middens are sloes. One hypothesis is that they were not eaten, but used for dying clothes. On a not totally unrelated matter, my peche de vigne is growing happily. I shall discover if it fruits. It would amuse me to introduce a Neolithic fruit crop into the UK, in the 21st century :-) I am sure that it has been done before, of course. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#34
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Damons? Plums?
On 16/8/08 15:07, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote: In article , Sacha writes: | | Wow! Talk about getting the bit between your teeth........ ;-)) Thank you | so muchfor going to all this trouble and producing such interesting info. I | especially like the bit above about no such plum stones being found at | Pompeii - for some reason human details like that make a topic much more | interesting to me! What baffles me is why Prunus domestica wasn't more important in Neolithic times (at least not in the UK). The vast majority of the 'plum' stones found in Neolithic middens are sloes. One hypothesis is that they were not eaten, but used for dying clothes. On a not totally unrelated matter, my peche de vigne is growing happily. I shall discover if it fruits. It would amuse me to introduce a Neolithic fruit crop into the UK, in the 21st century :-) I am sure that it has been done before, of course. Regards, Nick Maclaren. Photos if it does, please, Nick! It's just a little similar to us going to Les Baux and being fascinated that we were on some very high hilltops but kept seeing limpet shells in the rock faces. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon |
#35
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Damons? Plums?
In article , Sacha writes: | | On a not totally unrelated matter, my peche de vigne is growing happily. | I shall discover if it fruits. It would amuse me to introduce a Neolithic | fruit crop into the UK, in the 21st century :-) I am sure that it has | been done before, of course. | | Photos if it does, please, Nick! It's just a little similar to us going to | Les Baux and being fascinated that we were on some very high hilltops but | kept seeing limpet shells in the rock faces. OK. And probably the stones, for people to grow on :-) But I am not expecting it - currently, I have plenty of foliage but nothing more. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#36
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Damons? Plums?
On 16/8/08 15:56, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote: In article , Sacha writes: | | On a not totally unrelated matter, my peche de vigne is growing happily. | I shall discover if it fruits. It would amuse me to introduce a Neolithic | fruit crop into the UK, in the 21st century :-) I am sure that it has | been done before, of course. | | Photos if it does, please, Nick! It's just a little similar to us going to | Les Baux and being fascinated that we were on some very high hilltops but | kept seeing limpet shells in the rock faces. OK. And probably the stones, for people to grow on :-) But I am not expecting it - currently, I have plenty of foliage but nothing more. Regards, Nick Maclaren. Oh for some sunshine.......... ;-( -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon |
#37
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Damons? Plums?
On 14th August Sacha wrote:
We had some people in today who live in France and they were looking for Damsons which they say seem to be unknown there (Paris and Corsica) This got us onto what is the difference between a Damson and a Plum because both are Prunus and probably domestica? I understand that damsons tend to make smaller trees but if anyone can explain in terms of flavour or use, enquiring minds would be really grateful. ;-) Sorry I missed this first time round. I'm writing from Normandy at the moment and when I bought this house eighteen years ago it came with several plum trees of two varieties. One of the varieties is definitely a damson but when I asked my neighbour what he called it he unhelpfully replied "prune"! So the damson is known here but the French appear to refer to it simply as a variety of plum. Having looked it up in Collins-Robert it is slightly more helpful, calling it a "prune de damas" (a Damascus plum - damson would appear to be a corruption of this). Yes, I suppose my damson trees are somewhat smaller than the plum trees with finer branches. Every year my plum trees fruit prolifically. This year, not one! We had early frosts here in the Suisse Normande. David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
#38
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Damons? Plums?
In article , David Rance writes: | | So the damson is known here but the French appear to refer to it simply | as a variety of plum. Having looked it up in Collins-Robert it is | slightly more helpful, calling it a "prune de damas" (a Damascus plum - | damson would appear to be a corruption of this). Well, it IS just a variety of plum! And, yes, that's its origin. The French terms that I find a a bit odd are where the same word is used for two items that are used very differently - groseille being an example. | Yes, I suppose my damson trees are somewhat smaller than the plum trees | with finer branches. Every year my plum trees fruit prolifically. This | year, not one! We had early frosts here in the Suisse Normande. And I had the most appalling aphids - no fruit :-( Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#39
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Damons? Plums?
On 16th August Nick Maclaren wrote:
David Rance writes: | | So the damson is known here but the French appear to refer to it simply | as a variety of plum. Having looked it up in Collins-Robert it is | slightly more helpful, calling it a "prune de damas" (a Damascus plum - | damson would appear to be a corruption of this). Well, it IS just a variety of plum! And, yes, that's its origin. Quite! So is the greengage which the French call Reine Claude! The French terms that I find a a bit odd are where the same word is used for two items that are used very differently - groseille being an example. They do distinguish between groseille rouge, groseille blanche and groseille à maquereau (gooseberry). Not the blackcurrant however which is cassis | Yes, I suppose my damson trees are somewhat smaller than the plum trees | with finer branches. Every year my plum trees fruit prolifically. This | year, not one! We had early frosts here in the Suisse Normande. Sorry, that should have been late frosts! And I had the most appalling aphids - no fruit :-( I sympathise. David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
#40
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Damons? Plums?
On 16/8/08 16:12, in article ,
"AriesVal" wrote: On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:07:33 +0100, Sacha wrote: Oh for some sunshine.......... ;-( Yes please! Snap the fingers! There you are!! Oh - whoops, failed again. ;-( -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon |
#41
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Damons? Plums?
In article , David Rance writes: | | Well, it IS just a variety of plum! And, yes, that's its origin. | | Quite! So is the greengage which the French call Reine Claude! Indeed. | The French terms that I find a a bit odd are where the same word | is used for two items that are used very differently - groseille | being an example. | | They do distinguish between groseille rouge, groseille blanche and | groseille à maquereau (gooseberry). Not the blackcurrant however which | is cassis Are those terms in common use, though? Whenever I have seen a use of groseille, it has been unqualified - both when ambiguous and when clear from the context. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#42
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Damons? Plums?
"David Rance" wrote in message news:dgqgWRGAAxpIFwCx@David- Sorry, that should have been late frosts! And I had the most appalling aphids - no fruit :-( I sympathise. No late frosts at Nanneys bridge ! Aphids - no problem (;-) But praying for no early gales. http://www.geocities.com/thecanalshop/Malus16082008.jpg Crab apple jelly calls ------- Regards Pete www.thecanalshop.com |
#43
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Damons? Plums?
On 16th August Nick Maclaren wrote:
David Rance writes: | They do distinguish between groseille rouge, groseille blanche and | groseille à maquereau (gooseberry). Not the blackcurrant however which | is cassis Are those terms in common use, though? Whenever I have seen a use of groseille, it has been unqualified - both when ambiguous and when clear from the context. Well actually, no. They would use it only when the context wasn't clear. However the Normans around here call redcurrrants "grades". When my neighbours talk about groseilles they mean gooseberries. But when they mean redcurrants they will always say grades. It's not in the standard dictionary but is in my book of patois "Le Parler Normand". So to them there isn't a problem! There are other local variations, "gradelles" and "gradilles", but here it's "grades". David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
#44
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Damons? Plums?
The message
from Sacha contains these words: Oh for some sunshine.......... ;-( I've just apologised to a holly tree (which was knee-high when I moved in here) and severely truncated it. I shall permit a small trim prickly ball, but as it was, it completely shaded my 'fruity corner', and I want some figs... And some grapes... And some Japanese quinces... And later, some hunza apricots... -- Rusty Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk Separator in search of a sig |
#45
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Damons? Plums?
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