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#121
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How bad is bad?
Janet did you appreciate the ""11.11.11"" across the Wreath at the National Memorial? Kindest regards Mike ps I doubt if many on this newsgroup/forum will :-(( No I didn't think they would :-((( Shame really for all they spout. Don't appreciate that they ARE allowed to spout and who gave their all for their freedom. Able to use this medium as their public email/chat facility. :-(((( Mike -- .................................... Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive. .................................... |
#122
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How bad is bad?
"'Mike'" wrote in message ... "Bill Grey" wrote in message ... "Martin" wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 09:41:51 +0100, "Bill Grey" wrote: "Martin" wrote in message m... Amongst root causes are no hope of employment in some areas, the opportunity to steal things that rioters could never afford and "having fun". -- Martin Whilst agreeing with the above, I believe you haven't gone far enough. Before the "no hope " stage arrives, people - i.e. children/youths need to have been taught respect for their elders. Only a small minority are out of control. This goes even further back to their school days where lack of discipline was / is rife. The abolishment of corporal punishment was the start of the rot. No one ever wanted to "beat up" children for misbehaving, but a short sharp shock worked wonders for the applier of corporal punishment? Rmember Willy Whitlelaw's proposal which got nowhere ? In retrospect we can appreciate the wisdow of our own education, I assume we are all well behaved pillars of society ! At the school I went to only the bad teachers resorted to corporal punishment. -- Martin "Corporal Punishments" is such a strong phrase - not invented by me, but it must be remembered that the cane never did any real harm - it did more good than harm. One only got the cane if one misbehaved, was cheeky or rude - tendencies which needed to be corrected. The pillars of society at the time of its abolition had in all probability received the cane at some time. The "do-gooders" have ruined society and we are now reaping the products of their actions. There were, without doubt, bad teachers who went beyond the ethos of good discipline. Bill I went to a Private School and the Slipper was very effective. Mike This is what is encompassed by the term Corporal Punishment. Hardly compatible with the term. I'm with you on this Mike Bill |
#123
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#124
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How bad is bad?
On 10/08/2011 22:57, in article , "Sacha" wrote: This has been the norm in many countries for centuries. It has not led to widespread rioting and looting by a comparatively small number who think themselves untouchable by law. There are too many variables to draw direct conclusions from other countries. |
#125
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"Kay" wrote in message ... On 10/08/2011 20:29, in article , "Bill Grey" wrote: "Kay" wrote in message ... Wow ! Your statement about knowing people etc...... is somewhat surreal. Having confidence knocked out of them is certainly an exaggeration or a distortion of the facts. You don't know who I am talking about, so your statement is based on ignorance of the facts. The most you can legitimately say is that your experience is different from mine. You are absolutely correct - I do not know the people to which you refer. However to say that they went to a school with corporal punishmentnet turned them from bright confident children into adults having had the confidence knocked out of them suggests they were bullied rather fhan suffered from the occasional cane or slipper for some minor lapse in their normally impeccable behaviour. Come now, I can't believe that the tag "Corporal punishment" applied the to the school could possibly cause the effect you report without the school being referred to some authority to consider its suitablilty as a centre of education. If not entirely correct, your satement certainly describes the unsatisfactory eduction of some people in most colourful terms Bill |
#126
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In article ,
Bill Grey wrote: "Kay" wrote in message ... Wow ! Your statement about knowing people etc...... is somewhat surreal. Having confidence knocked out of them is certainly an exaggeration or a distortion of the facts. You don't know who I am talking about, so your statement is based on ignorance of the facts. The most you can legitimately say is that your experience is different from mine. You are absolutely correct - I do not know the people to which you refer. However to say that they went to a school with corporal punishmentnet turned them from bright confident children into adults having had the confidence knocked out of them suggests they were bullied rather fhan suffered from the occasional cane or slipper for some minor lapse in their normally impeccable behaviour. That is true, but only if you use "bully" in a very generic sense; which includes a great deal that used to be regarded as an essential part of proper education. Come now, I can't believe that the tag "Corporal punishment" applied the to the school could possibly cause the effect you report without the school being referred to some authority to consider its suitablilty as a centre of education. And that is not. It took me 20+ years to recover from the PHYSICAL damage caused by punishments at one school, which I discovered later had been classed as torture in the Nueremberg trials! Not extreme torture, but still classified as such. And that was a 'respected' English public school. Do you think that we can drop this? Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#128
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In article , Mike Lyle
writes And if we want it to stop, we do have to ask why it happens -- and I for one am far from certain about that, too. Indeed. Personally, I think we're too far down a long long line of social changes to have much chance of finding either a short or long term solution. To my mind - and I know its simplifying things a lot - the major causes are a combination of: the imperative to rampant consumerism (including 'must have' advertising). This is unsustainable and inevitably socially divisive; the city crowding that brings on the possibility of anonymity; the modern ease of movemement (which allows people to shit on a doorstep and move toot sweet). Add all the other things discussed and its a recipe for societal disaster. -- regards andyw |
#129
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wrote in message ... In article , Bill Grey wrote: "Kay" wrote in message ... Wow ! Your statement about knowing people etc...... is somewhat surreal. Having confidence knocked out of them is certainly an exaggeration or a distortion of the facts. You don't know who I am talking about, so your statement is based on ignorance of the facts. The most you can legitimately say is that your experience is different from mine. You are absolutely correct - I do not know the people to which you refer. However to say that they went to a school with corporal punishmentnet turned them from bright confident children into adults having had the confidence knocked out of them suggests they were bullied rather fhan suffered from the occasional cane or slipper for some minor lapse in their normally impeccable behaviour. That is true, but only if you use "bully" in a very generic sense; which includes a great deal that used to be regarded as an essential part of proper education. Come now, I can't believe that the tag "Corporal punishment" applied the to the school could possibly cause the effect you report without the school being referred to some authority to consider its suitablilty as a centre of education. And that is not. It took me 20+ years to recover from the PHYSICAL damage caused by punishments at one school, which I discovered later had been classed as torture in the Nueremberg trials! Not extreme torture, but still classified as such. And that was a 'respected' English public school. Do you think that we can drop this? Of course, because if one X mentions "the slipper" someone else bring s up "thumbscrews" - theoretically, totally distorting the discussion.. Bill. |
#130
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In article , Mike Lyle
writes Personally I'd have aimed a hose with permanent green dye on all looters and their stolen goods, then let them pass those goods on or try !! Yes, it would be good fun. Personally, I'd like to see costed plans for this eventuality. Would there be permanent Green-Liquid Squirting Officers s Just add something to the water cannons Mike. Purely so that the looters don't profit from their crimes and it would be so much easier to nail the little oiks afterwards when their expensive haircut has been marred b dye I can understand huge rallies and marches and demonstrations that sometimes can get out of control but I can never agree that any social issue leads to purposeful looting and destruction of property. That's purely a criminal act nothing to do with reaction to society etc. Tom always said he could understand if men were stealing to actually feed their families, i.e. food etc. but that's not the same as deliberately torching a furniture store or grabbing alcohol and the latest iphone. None of those shown on television looked as if they needed a square meal and most of them wore high fashion clothing not second-hand trainers and threadbare jackets! -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
#131
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In article , Sacha
writes I agree with you entirely. One can argue the point with children so as to give them something to think about. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon Except (imho) in instances when a quick deterrent would be infinitely better such as when the child starts to run out in the road without looking or waves a knife around or pokes something into a socket, or starts lighting matches, etc, then you have no time to stand and debate the point, sometimes it's necessary to just stop the behaviour. -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
#132
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How bad is bad?
On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 14:27:20 +0100, Janet Tweedy wrote:
One can argue the point with children so as to give them something to think about. Yeah, yeah, what ever... That is all the attention you will get from a teenager if that. From the out of control effectively parentless oiks recently running wild you more likely to get abuse, only maybe only verbal but I wouldn't like to bet on it not being physical abuse either. Less than about five it reasoned discussion isn't that effective either, they don't have the langauge or proper understanding. It might work from five to teenage but dependant entirely on how the child has been brought up before five. If the child has had very little discipline instilled talking is just a waste of your breath. Except (imho) in instances when a quick deterrent would be infinitely better such as when the child starts to run out in the road without looking ... Quite, my daughter wasn't very old wehn she dashed into the road outside the primary school. I lunged and grabbed her shoulder and I suspect picked her up by it and plonked here back on the pavement. Boy was she surprised, not upset, just shocked. She *never* did it again and has always respected traffic and the road since. or waves a knife around or pokes something into a socket, or starts lighting matches, etc, then you have no time to stand and debate the point, sometimes it's necessary to just stop the behaviour. Agreed the slap on the wrist or very definate *NO* or *STOP* works far better than a "oh darling, I'd rather you didn't poke that bit of wire into the socket as you might get hurt". -- Cheers Dave. |
#133
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How bad is bad?
In message , Baz
writes And also why have a knob head serving with our patriotic volunteers, true they are paid accordingly, but why have someone/s with you who is an outcast, and you are defending your country. The last thing you need is a convict with you. Baz I did two years National Service, and can assure you that those of us whose careers were interrupted by N.S. were not the "knob heads". Most of the regulars of our age and experience were lads who had become RAF apprentices at an early age, and the impression I got was that quite a few were getting away from bad homes, or were unable to get decent jobs or training elsewhere. Some Senior NCOs were the tops, especially those on the technical side, but our Admin Flight Sergeant was a Neanderthal gorilla of a man. When 6 new beds were allocated to our billet, we pointed out that all of the beds were perfectly serviceable, to which he replied "Bring 'em out here"! He then proceeded to jump up and down on them on the billet steps until they were bent, and had to be scrapped. Knob head? For sure! -- Gordon H Remove "invalid" to reply |
#134
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How bad is bad?
In message , Mike Lyle
writes Yes, it would be good fun. Personally, I'd like to see costed plans for this eventuality. Would there be permanent Green-Liquid Squirting Officers stationed every hundred yards in every city of the United Kingdom, ready to spring into action once every ten or twenty years? Or would there be a Green-Liquid Flying Squad, ready to travel at a moment's notice in order to arrive after the looting's finished? Would they be armed to protect them from being knocked out as a preliminary to the looting? LOL! We're all repelled, angry, afraid, and all those feelings: I'm not taking the, er, yellow liquid out of you, but we have to be practical. And what the practical measures are, I'm far from certain. And if we want it to stop, we do have to ask why it happens -- and I for one am far from certain about that, too. It's about time those taking this discussion seriously asked themselves the question you pose. Shrieking about savage and dubious retaliations does not provide the answer. One of the best contributions I have heard to the debates was on Newsnight, from a reformed black ex-criminal. I doubt if many of the group will have struggled through his heavy street accent, but he is the kind of person who can best give clues as to the causes and the cure of youth crime. -- Gordon H Remove "invalid" to reply |
#135
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