On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:45:52 -0700, chaniarts wrote:

here in phx, they spray olive trees to prevent flowering. they use what
looks like truck mounted pressure sprayers with a very long hose and
wand so they can reach the top of the trees some 20-40' up.

The truck-mounted sprayer 'might' work on the curbside plant, if I could
afford it - but - look at this picture to see the magnitude of the
problem I face.
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917493.jpg

There is just no way a truck is going to get down there!

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 18:01:20 -0500, krw wrote:

Perzactly. I've seen them used on apple trees, too.

I like the idea of a truck mounted sprayer.

But there will still be tons of poison oak in the inaccessible places
like this one I snapped just today about 100 feet below where the
pictures were taken yesterday.
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917528.jpg

I don't think a truck can get down there, unfortunately.

On 08 Jan 2013, "Danny D." wrote in
alt.home.repair:

I'm not sure I've adequately explained the MAGNITUDE of my
problem.

Please look at this picture I just took today of the other side of
the poison oak plant I'm trying to kill.
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/11917454.jpg

This is the full-size picture, just so you can SEE, up front, what
I'm dealing with, face to face, man to land:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917454.jpg

God, what a nightmare. I get an allergic reaction to poison ivy just
looking at it. Even looking at your pictures gives me itchy blisters.

Those things look malevolent, like they're aware of and looking to
catch and kill human beings.

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 21:35:18 -0500, Nil
wrote:

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917454.jpg

God, what a nightmare. I get an allergic reaction to poison ivy just
looking at it. Even looking at your pictures gives me itchy blisters.

Those things look malevolent, like they're aware of and looking to
catch and kill human beings.

Yep. I even break out in hives when work is mentioned. My back starts
hurting if I walk by a ladder. Damnedest thing.

They make cutters that mount on excavators
look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX66xyk0InQ

After you get it cleared you'll want to keep it sprayed until it quits
regrowing.

On 01-08-2013 08:58, Robert Macy wrote:
In California wilds, goats that preferentially ATE poison oak were
used to 'maintain' the landscape. Goats were happy. People were happy.
Now THAT is recycling!

Even better, dairy goats. Drinking the milk of goats that eat poison
oak tends to give you a partial immunity.

--
Wes Groleau

Is it an on-line compliment to call someone a Net Wit ?

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 21:35:18 -0500, Nil wrote:

God, what a nightmare. I get an allergic reaction to poison ivy just
looking at it. Even looking at your pictures gives me itchy blisters.

Those things look malevolent, like they're aware of and looking to
catch and kill human beings.

Funny you should say that, because I treat it like a battleground!

I dress up in my protective gear, and I fuel and oil my weapon, and then
I survey my enemy, looking for the weak spots in his fortress.

As I attack, he reaches out at any bare skin with chemical warfare (1 cup
of urushiol can poison everyone on the entire planet!) and I coil back in
fear when it slaps me in the face.

But, while slashing away at the outliers, soon I spy the leadership, a
thick set of vines, each the thickness of a baseball bat, and I aim at
them as Alexander did Darias, to fight my way past the wounded weeping
tendrils guarding the lair, until I can get close enough to strike deep
and hard at the core!
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917693.jpg

In the end, I win, and hold up the bleeding trophy in my triumphant hands!
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917694.jpg

Note: The amount of urushiol you see dripping in that one picture can
poison the entire population of the planet, according to the prior
references! wow.

IF you don't come up with a better method, at least get a chainsaw
extender so that you are further away from the spray.

Goats, by the way (I used to raise them), will eat the leaves and softer
stems, not the woody vines. If the leaves are hard to reach, they may
not bother, but if they do, the trampling of the vines also helps.

They may chew on the bark of the vines--that part I can't remember.
They did like the bark of some trees, but I don't remember whether they
liked poison oak bark. (It was thirty years ago)

--
Wes Groleau

Guidelines for judging others:
1. Don't attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity.
2. Don't attribute to stupidity that which
can be adequately explained by ignorance.
3. Don't attribute to ignorance that which
can be adequately explained by misunderstanding.
4. Don't attribute to misunderstanding that which
can be adequately explained by alcohol.

On 01-08-2013 15:43, Danny D. wrote:
The verbatim statement from that web site below leads me to
conjure the thought that this single plant on my property can
infect every single person on earth, since it was literally
dripping drops of sap within a few minutes of cutting the plant!
"Urushiol is so incredibly toxic that it would take only one
ounce of it to affect everyone on the earth with a rash
(Brooks 2001)."

There are other opinions. One source suggested that 15% are unaffected;
another said thirty.

I reacted severely from what was in the air when I got close to it when
we first moved to Oregon. But a few years later, I could pick it
without gloves and have little or no reaction. Other people who drank
goat's milk reported similar experiences. We believe the milk either
contains an antidote, or it contains traces of urushiol so small your
body has a chance to develop a defense.

But it might be something else entirely. I do think I have a strong
immune system, as I never react to a smallpox vaccine. Since I had no
scar, the Navy accused me of lying and vaccinated me again. And again,
even though the second one (the first Navy one) was documented in my
official records.

Unfortunately, my immune system is now attacking my thyroid glands.

--
Wes Groleau

There ain't no right wing,
there ain't no left wing.
There's only you and me and we just disagree.
(apologies to Jim Krueger)

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 18:29:51 -0800, TimR wrote:

the exposure sensitized me, and Wow!
next time I got close to some I needed medical attention.
Sooner or later I think your efforts are likely to have the same effect.

Nobody is immune to cell mediated immunity.

I was sensitized to poison ivy way long ago as a kid.
I get it as badly as anyone does.

Now that I'm in California, it's poison oak.
But it still itches like crazy.

When I get it on my skin, and I don't wash it off, I am red and yellow
blisters and itching for weeks on end. Just like you are.

The problem is exacerbated when you see how much oil is in a single plant!
Look at this video, for example, of a 3-inch thick vine I cut today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYcJslc6ymE

That's enough urushiol right there to poison every single human on the
planet! Talk about biological warfare!


PS: My camera is soaked in the stuff. I don't know how to clean it yet.

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 23:22:22 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote:

Drinking the milk of goats that eat poison
oak tends to give you a partial immunity.

I wonder if it helps to be sensitized as a child to poison ivy (back
east) and then to be thoroughly exposed to poison oak (out west).

The only difference in the catechol oil urushiol is poison ivy urushiol
has a 15 carbon chain while poison oak urushiol has a 17 carbon chain.

But, slight differences, can sometimes make a huge difference in cell
mediated immune responses.

Note: I use free drillers bentonite instead of expensive ivy block; and I
use Dawn dishwashing liquid instead of $40/ounce Technu (only the
government can afford those prices!).

BTW, here's a dripping vine I cut today, the size of my wrist, just
dripping with urushiol!
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917768.jpg

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 23:58:18 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote:

One source suggested that 15% are unaffected;
another said thirty.

We're talking different things, so let's clarify.

1. Nobody is immune to type IV CMI
2. But not everybody gets the rash under normal circumstances
3. Yet, almost everyone will get the rash if they get exposed to enough
urushiol.

It gets complicated to explain in a USENET post, but let's briefly take
these in turn - but this isn't the place for detailed discussions.

I. Nobody is immune.
Delayed contact dermititis is a type IV CMI (cell mediated immune
response), which nobody is immune to forever. Get exposed frequently
enough, and you WILL get it. It's the way your body works.

II. Not every gets the rash all the time
This is highly dependent on dosage! Remember the oil is NOT anywhere on
the outside of the plant! The oil is protectively ensconced INSIDE the
cells. Of course, chain sawing the plant in half tends to allow the oils
to leak out ... like this video I just took today of just that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYcJslc6ymE

III. Give any human enough pure urushiol, and they ALL will get the rash!
(See #I and #II above.)

Anyway, while we're quoting figures, Wikipedia says the following on
percentages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urushio...act_dermatitis

Verbatim:
"Approximately 80% to 90% of adults will get a rash if they are exposed
to 50 micrograms of purified urushiol. Some people are so sensitive, it
only takes a trace of urushiol (two micrograms or less than one ten-
millionth of an ounce) on the skin to initiate an allergic reaction
(Epstein et al., 1974).[6]"

Now, if you're exposed to less urushiol, all bets are off - but - given
this picture below, I would safely say anyone exposed to this much
potential urushiol had better take some safety precautions (as I do).
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917834.jpg

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 05:58:45 -0800, Robert Macy wrote:

In California wilds, goats that preferentially ATE poison oak were used
to 'maintain' the landscape.

Friends down the street actually have goats, and they concur.
The key problem for them to lend me the goats is that the land isn't
fenced in.

Goat(s) on a rope?

"Larry W" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:23:14 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Can the goats be tethered on aircraft cable lines?
So the goats don't chew themselves free?

That's an interesting and clever idea!

But, at this point, I'm not goating there!

I agree, wouldn't want to horn in...

Butt it's still a good idea.

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 23:58:18 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote:

I reacted severely from what was in the air when I got close to it when
we first moved to Oregon. But a few years later, I could pick it
without gloves and have little or no reaction.

Hi Wes,

That is an interesting story - but I would caution anyone from actually
touching the stuff because of the classic YMMV difference in every
situation.

The funny thing about invisible toxins is that we really don't know
exactly where the stuff is, and where it isn't.

For example, look at my red sweatshirt & TIG welding gloves today:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917872.jpg

Notice I had no idea exactly WHERE the urushiol was, on Sunday, when I
last wore them, but today, two days later, the oil on the gloves was
sufficiently oxidized black to see it and the shirt oils were oxidized in
the washing machine.

The point is - you never know if you've been truly exposed or not, as
it's a statistical thing. So, a LOT of people conclude they were exposed
and didn't get the rash - when - in reality - they just weren't exposed
(or not exposed to enough to make black marks all over their clothes).

When I was in graduate school, I worked part time in a lab, and you'd be
amazed at the strangest places we found P32 with the geiger counter. You
can't see it - and when you find out where it got - you sit there and
ponder how the hell did it get there.

Now, maybe the goats milk matters - because the immune system DOES work
the way you said it does (i.e., when exposed at the right time in the
immune system development, the immune system learns what is body and what
is foreign) - so I am NOT saying you're wrong ... I'm just cautioning
anyone from actually touching the stuff with bare hands on purpose!



Urushiol is no different. You didn't get it from "the air". You touched
something that had a pinprick drop of oil on it. What you touched could
have been 'anything' (remember, the oil is known to remain infectious for
100 years ... in a laboratory drawer anyway).

The other thing to remember is that the oil is NOT on the outside of the
plant. Not outside the leaves, stem, berries, or root. But it's inside
all of them, so, you (and I) can pick it up (gingerly) and nothing bad
will happen.

But, when you do this ... now you've gotten that damn plant mad!