Sorry, I do like word play, now and again.

Back to helping Danny think about his poison
oak growth. I think he's taken on a MAJOR
huge task.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Robert Macy"
wrote in message
...

arrrggg! what did I do to deserve this punishment?

On Wed, 9 Jan 2013 06:44:40 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 01:17:40 -0500, Nil wrote:

Ever since then I've been VERY sensitive

When I first bought the property I live at, which is covered in Pacific
Poison Oak, I researched the Internet for weeks, trying to assess my
enemy. (Never underestimate your enemy when it's poison oak!)

One thing I learned is that the delayed cell mediated immune response to
urushiol is such that NOBODY is ever (truly) immune.

Sure, you might not get the rash this time. Maybe not next time. Maybe
not the next. Or the next after that. But, the physiology of the body's
immune response is such that everyone 'can' get it at any time after the
first exposure. Which is exactly what you found out!

What I do, by the way, after a severe exposure, is, instead of buying the
expensive IvyBlock/Technu/Zanfel/Prednisole regimen, is the following:

http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917988.jpg

Yes, which is why I never play with poison ivy. One summer I had the
kid clean up some vines in the back yard. Nothing I hadn't done but I
didn't recognize the PI, either. I have never had a reaction to PI,
though I've never been one to tempt fate. He got a little rash but my
wife just touched his clothes, taking them from the floor and putting
them directly in the washer, came down with blister from head to toe.
She was one hurtin' pup for weeks.

Some time later I hired a handyman to cut down a tree by the road. We
knew it was loaded with PI, but he said it didn't bother him. Well
maybe it never had, but it sure did that time. He was in the
emergency room shortly after. Did I say that *I* didn't play with the
stuff. ;-)

Someone years ago used to sell snake venom.
I have suggested to sell Urishol to the military,
they can spray it on enemy encampments.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Robert Macy" wrote in message
...
On Jan 8, 9:25 pm, "Danny D." wrote:
...sinip...
Note: The amount of urushiol you see dripping in that one picture can
poison the entire population of the planet, according to the prior
references! wow.

Is there a market for that product?

Danny,

I hope you are using Ivy Block or something similar. .

Dave M.

On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:29:22 -0500, Brooklyn1 wrote:

There are similar cutters that mount on small tractors, that's how
roadway shoulders are cleared of heavy brush... they're called "flail
mowers". From your pictures it appears one could easily clear your
property down to stumps with a small tractor with a cab

Understood. They clear the roads out here all the time with a five foot
wide cutter than arcs high and can get behind the guardrails (banging
them up in the process).

That WOULD work for the part that I just cleared, but not for the part
deep down in the ravine 100 feet below (which is inaccessible to tractors
AFAIK).

Probably not in my budget though.

On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:36:52 -0500, krw wrote:

What I do, by the way, after a severe exposure, is, instead of buying
the expensive IvyBlock/Technu/Zanfel/Prednisole regimen, is
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917988.jpg

Yes, which is why I never play with poison ivy.

I don't mind battling poisonous plants any more than I mind winding
torsion springs, but, I do try to know thine enemy thoroughly, and one
problem I have in spades is decontamination of something invisible, yet
toxic.

To that end, I was just made aware of the most fantastic reliable
reference on the net for battling toxic Pacific Poison Oak in the field!

United States Patent 4,594,239, to Pluim, Jr., on June 10, 1986
Titled: Method for neutralizing offensive chemicals
http://tinyurl.com/ah7myn3

Summary:
Urushiol causes dermatitis by changing the surface proteins in the skin
so the body no longer recognizes the skin as human, and attacks it.

That effect is actually fairly easy to interfere with. Pretty much any
change to the urushiol molecule would probably prevent dermatitis.

Chlorine bleach is a strong oxidizing agent, and should easily do the
trick. Getting it into the oil would be aided by adding alcohol or
acetone as a wetting agent, but a strong surfactant should also work.

The patent prefers a solution of acetone + butyl acetate +
trichloroisocyanuric acid for neutralizing urushiol on skin, clothes, and
equipment; but if I preferentially select just the common household
chemicals discussed, the patent seems says that 2% to 6% common bleach
alone or combined with 5% to 20% rubbing alcohol (or acetone) as a
wetting agent will neutralize urushiol in about 1 minute.

The patent even explains how adding certain ferrous compounds will
actually make the toxic urushiol glow green, while the decontaminated
urushiol will not.

Armed with this information, I can create a decontamination mix out of
the prescribed pool chemicals and rubbing alcohol, which I can use to
wash my face, hands, neck, ears, and wrists every 15 minutes, while
removing the poison oak in the field!

On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:07:56 -0500, krw wrote:

Does anyone know how to get a pressure washer to spray the stuff?
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917337.jpg

Put it in the pressure washer's soap tank? Do any pressure washers
suck up the "soap" when they're running at pressure? Every one I've
seen will only draw from the tank when it's running very low pressure

I'm confused.

I could not figure out HOW to get the pressure washer to suck a fluid out
of an external tank (i.e., a soap tank).

Clearly my Honda pressure washer has a mechanism for sucking up the fluid
as shown in the picture - but I've never done it.

Q: What do I have to do to a pressure washer to make it suck from the
soap tank? Is there a valve or setting I have to twist or turn?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11924751.jpg

On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:37:15 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Note: The amount of urushiol you see dripping in that one picture can
poison the entire population of the planet, according to the prior
references! wow.

Is there a market for that product?

If there is, let me know 'cuz I have enough urushiol sap to contaminate
everyone on earth very many times over!

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 01:13:59 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:07:56 -0500, krw wrote:

Does anyone know how to get a pressure washer to spray the stuff?
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917337.jpg

Put it in the pressure washer's soap tank? Do any pressure washers
suck up the "soap" when they're running at pressure? Every one I've
seen will only draw from the tank when it's running very low pressure

I'm confused.

I could not figure out HOW to get the pressure washer to suck a fluid out
of an external tank (i.e., a soap tank).

Clearly my Honda pressure washer has a mechanism for sucking up the fluid
as shown in the picture - but I've never done it.

Q: What do I have to do to a pressure washer to make it suck from the
soap tank? Is there a valve or setting I have to twist or turn?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11924751.jpg

Fill the tube with liquid to prime the vacuum from the pump?

Never tried it, but it would be my guess.

"Danny D." wrote:
Brooklyn1 wrote:

There are similar cutters that mount on small tractors, that's how
roadway shoulders are cleared of heavy brush... they're called "flail
mowers". From your pictures it appears one could easily clear your
property down to stumps with a small tractor with a cab

Understood. They clear the roads out here all the time with a five foot
wide cutter than arcs high and can get behind the guardrails (banging
them up in the process).

That WOULD work for the part that I just cleared, but not for the part
deep down in the ravine 100 feet below (which is inaccessible to tractors
AFAIK).

Probably not in my budget though.

You don't need to buy, you can rent. But I were you I'd contract with
a local land clearing company... since it appears that you really need
to get the job done it pays to have the pros do it... they have the
equipment and the know how. Often attempting such jobs oneself the
cheap turns out expensive. You might be pleasantly surprised to find
out having the pros do it doesn't cost as much as you may think. Get
some estimates, that's also a great way to learn some good ways to
approach your problem from folks who actually know. I know that it
can be very tough on certain people's egos but there are some jobs one
shouldn't do themselves, from what I can see I think this is such a
job. Were it my property I'd have the company that removes trees for
me do that job, they'd arrive with a small crew (maybe four men), in
no time all that heavy brush would go into their heavy shredder, it
would get trucked to a dump site. Then they'd come in and till and
power rake your entire field. In practically no time all your
problems would be over and you'd have nice fresh land to do with as
you will. I don't remember seeing where you mention how much land is
involved (acres?), I'm guestimating from your pictures that job will
cost you about $1,000, well worth it. Jobs like yours are almost all
labor, there are no materials involved like when putting in a gravel
roadway... only material for your job is like $100 diesel.
Either of these companys can do your job, I've used both several times
each, both are very reliable and honest. If all you want is to remove
the brush contact LB, if you want to remove the brush and totally
improve the topography contact Maggio:
http://www.maggioandsons.com/
http://lbtreeservice.com/index.htm

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 01:13:59 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:07:56 -0500, krw wrote:

Does anyone know how to get a pressure washer to spray the stuff?
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917337.jpg

Put it in the pressure washer's soap tank? Do any pressure washers
suck up the "soap" when they're running at pressure? Every one I've
seen will only draw from the tank when it's running very low pressure

I'm confused.

I could not figure out HOW to get the pressure washer to suck a fluid out
of an external tank (i.e., a soap tank).

Clearly my Honda pressure washer has a mechanism for sucking up the fluid
as shown in the picture - but I've never done it.

Q: What do I have to do to a pressure washer to make it suck from the
soap tank? Is there a valve or setting I have to twist or turn?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11924751.jpg

My new pressure washer has two built-in tanks, it will suck at low or
high pressure settings, and can set the suck rate.
Love it:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o03_s00_i00

On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 19:01:11 -0500, David L. Martel wrote:

I hope you are using Ivy Block or something similar.

Heh heh. (I think) I may be a bit different than most people, partly
because I'm often literally slathered in urushiol laced sap, so I'd be
using gallons of those expensive cremes.

Of course, even with long-sleeved shirts, I still get rashes on my face,
ears, neck, wrists, hands, and ankles (I never can figure out how the
ankles get it, but they do).

Those expensive solutions (ivy block, technu, zanfel, etc.) are for
governments who can afford overpaying for them or for people who use only
a little bit, who also can afford the outrageous prices they charge.

Me?

What I use (as much as I need) is pictured he
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917988.jpg

IVYBLOCK:
After researching how Ivy Block came about (firemen didn't get poison oak
in their their arm pits which had deodorant containing bentonite), I
picked up that bag of bentonite clay from a well driller.

TECHNU/ZANFEL:
After researching how the $40/ounce spermicide-laced polyethylene-grit
detergents worked, I came up with 22 cents/ounce Dawn dishwashing liquid
as my affordable alternative, which I slather on with wanton abandon.

In addition, I just learned from this patent about a NEW SOLUTION!
- United States Patent 4,594,239, June 10, 1986,
- Method for neutralizing offensive chemicals
- http://tinyurl.com/ah7myn3

This solution (which also reputedly works for skunk stink) is essentially
a weak solution of a chloramine (such as the pool chemical trichlor) and
a weak solution of a wetting agent (such as rubbing alcohol or acetone).

This is good news because Ivy Block (and my bentonite substitute) only
works BEFORE exposure; and Technu/Zanfel mostly work best within 15
minutes of exposure (for the most part) ...

But, this cheap solution of, essentially, bleach + alcohol, can be rubbed
on my face, hands, wrists, neck, ears, etc., every 15 minutes while I'm
working!

I'm not one for old wives tales - so I have to experiment personally with
this patented idea - but the fact it has a patent is a good thing because
it must be vetted somehow with experimental results.

I wonder why I've NEVER SEEN THIS solution in the web searches to date???

On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 10:42:03 +0000, Kay Lancaster wrote:

How about power pruners like:
http://www.blackanddecker.com/outdoor/LP1000.aspx or the pro versions?

Wow. That looks like a mean pruner!
This is the FIRST suggestion which is actually affordable (i.e., $80).
I do have a 20 inch hedge clipper - but it gets hung up on the vines all
the time, so I didn't even mention it. But THIS pruner, wow, it sure
looks like it might do the job if I can get an 18-inch long jaw.

Do you know about Technu IvyBlock and Technu Extreme?

I've researched the chemicals in those expensive creams in great detail.
What I use is the cheaper base alternative shown in this photograph:
Bentonite clay (IvyBlock), Dawn Dish Detergent + alchohol (Technu/Zanfel)
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917988.jpg

In my very humble opinion, only people who work for the government (e.g.,
firemen) can afford these expensive $40/ounce solutions.

The problem with IvyBlock (or my driller's clay) is that you have to put
it on ahead of time; and the problem with Technu (or dish detergent +
alcohol) is that it mostly works in the first 15 minutes.

But, I just found this patent which will give me a great new solution!
- United States Patent 4,594,239, June 10, 1986,
- Method for neutralizing offensive chemicals
- http://tinyurl.com/ah7myn3

I can take diluted bleach (or pool trichlor) and mix it with rubbing
alcohol (or acetone) as a wetting agent, and that will oxidize the
urushiol sap just enough so that the body's T Cells won't recognize it
anymore as offensive.

The beauty of this (new to me) approach is that I can afford to slather
this new decontamination solution on my face, hands, wrists, ears, and
neck every fifteen minutes while working in the ravines.

The amazing thing is that I had never heard of this decontamination
solution until just yesterday! I found it out on rec.photo.digital when I
asked how to decontaminate my expensive Nikon SLR which is clearly
covered in urushiol sap by now!

Danny D. wrote:

The patent prefers a solution of acetone + butyl acetate +
trichloroisocyanuric acid for neutralizing urushiol on skin, clothes,
and equipment;

What is butyl acetate and where would you get it?

I thought you were going to spray it on the plants.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Danny D." wrote in message
...

United States Patent 4,594,239, to Pluim, Jr., on June 10, 1986
Titled: Method for neutralizing offensive chemicals
http://tinyurl.com/ah7myn3

Summary:
Urushiol causes dermatitis by changing the surface proteins in the skin
so the body no longer recognizes the skin as human, and attacks it.

That effect is actually fairly easy to interfere with. Pretty much any
change to the urushiol molecule would probably prevent dermatitis.

Chlorine bleach is a strong oxidizing agent, and should easily do the
trick. Getting it into the oil would be aided by adding alcohol or
acetone as a wetting agent, but a strong surfactant should also work.

The patent prefers a solution of acetone + butyl acetate +
trichloroisocyanuric acid for neutralizing urushiol on skin, clothes, and
equipment; but if I preferentially select just the common household
chemicals discussed, the patent seems says that 2% to 6% common bleach
alone or combined with 5% to 20% rubbing alcohol (or acetone) as a
wetting agent will neutralize urushiol in about 1 minute.

The patent even explains how adding certain ferrous compounds will
actually make the toxic urushiol glow green, while the decontaminated
urushiol will not.

Armed with this information, I can create a decontamination mix out of
the prescribed pool chemicals and rubbing alcohol, which I can use to
wash my face, hands, neck, ears, and wrists every 15 minutes, while
removing the poison oak in the field!