On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 02:07:03 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote:

Well, that's the hypothesis. I don't KNOW that it's in the milk. In
fact, it probably isn't. But something derived from it may be.

It depends a LOT on what's in the milk, and, what your body does to it.
The entire process is complicated, and I don't profess to fully
understand it.

But, it starts with urushiol & T cells.

The actual urushiol is a benzene ring with two hydroxides (i.e., a
catechol), with a specific alkyl group which is slightly different
depending on species (e.g., poison ivy = 15 carbon chain, poison oak = 17
carbon chain). This molecule is harmless, and it, in and of itself, does
not provoke the immune response.

The immune response is complicated in so much as the longer carbon chains
in poison oak sap appear to have a greater immune response than the
shorter ones of ivy ... and ... the more unsaturated the chain (i.e.,
double bonds), the more our immune systems react to it (at least it says
so in Wikipedia).

Once on the skin, the oil penetrates to the lower antigen-presenting
immune cells whose job is to capture foreign invaders and transport them
to the lymph notes to be presented as evidence to the specific white
blood cells which had matured in the thymus in front of your heart, and
which play a role in the cell mediated immune response.

Since T cells, which originate in the bone marrow, randomly mutate in the
thymus, some of those mutations select for "self" proteins. But that's
bad news for the body, so the thymus has a system for weeding out these
miscreants.

Unfortunately, what the thymus lets out are T cells who have receptors
that key for the quinole that the urushiol oxidizes to. Hence the rash.

Point is, this is a complicated mechanism, which, we have only two basic
approaches to combat:

1. Build up an immunity (i.e., don't create Tcells coded for the quinone)
or
2. Remove the quinone from the body as soon as you can

I'm working on the second approach ... you've resolved the first.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 08:34:56 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 17:35:56 -0500, Frank wrote:

Have you tried 2,4D? It works on my poison ivy.

Hi Frank,
2,4D (aka Agent Orange) might work, especially if I could drop it out
of the sky like they did in Vietnam - which - is my real problem with
weed killers.

The poison oak plants I have are 20 feet long by something like 5 to
10 to 20 feet deep, so, there's just no way a normal weed killer
sprayer is going to go the distance.

Today I tried to see if I could get my pressure washer to suck out of
the 5 gallon pesticide jug - but I couldn't figure out how to do it.

Does anyone know how to get a pressure washer to spray the stuff?
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/.../11917337.jpg\

Have you tried a hose end sprayer. Mine easily sprays 20 feet. I'd use one of
the "fill spray jar for 6 gallons" variety. You'll have to wait for spring
growth first for most sprays to work.

Every power washer I've ever seen has a place to attach a tube for
sucking up liquid, often there's a port right on the spray gun housing
.... most normal brained folks would ask the power washer's customer
service department... and it's really dumb to ask about a power washer
without indicating the brand/model number.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 08:34:56 -0800, Bob F wrote:

Have you tried a hose end sprayer. Mine easily sprays 20 feet. I'd use
one of the "fill spray jar for 6 gallons" variety. You'll have to wait
for spring growth first for most sprays to work.

If I had a sprayer that went 20 feet, that would go a long way toward
killing (at least half) the Pacific Poison Oak I want dead.

I tried getting my Honda pressure washer to spray from a 5 gallon jug,
but I haven't figured out the controls to do so.

The best time to spray, I'm told, is when the fruits are out.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:17:21 -0500, Brooklyn1 wrote:

Every power washer I've ever seen has a place to attach a tube for
sucking up liquid, often there's a port right on the spray gun housing
... most normal brained folks would ask the power washer's customer
service department... and it's really dumb to ask about a power washer
without indicating the brand/model number.

This power washer has not only a place to suck up liquid, but it already
has a hose attached. It's just not sucking up the liquid!

I'm sure it's because it needs a switch (somehow) flipped!

Here's a picture of the PowerStroke washer I just took for you.
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11936549.jpg

It uses the Honda GC160 engine, if that helps.

Here is a closeup of the markings & the valving apparatus:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11936568.jpg

If anyone has ever used their pressure washer to suck out of the hose,
they would probably know what the secret configuration setup might be.

On 1/11/2013 10:57 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 08:34:56 -0800, Bob F wrote:

Have you tried a hose end sprayer. Mine easily sprays 20 feet. I'd use
one of the "fill spray jar for 6 gallons" variety. You'll have to wait
for spring growth first for most sprays to work.

If I had a sprayer that went 20 feet, that would go a long way toward
killing (at least half) the Pacific Poison Oak I want dead.

I tried getting my Honda pressure washer to spray from a 5 gallon jug,
but I haven't figured out the controls to do so.

The best time to spray, I'm told, is when the fruits are out.


i have a weed sprayer container that sucks via an venturi, that attaches
to a regular hose that will easily shoot 20' in a stream, or can be
adjusted to spray in a fan. it only cost a few dollars at the borg.

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/76/76711d76-df80-405e-8836-d025a8429b88_300.jpg

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 08:12:19 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I also am not all that impressed with "in the box" thinkers.

Yup. I agree.

With poison oak, everyone says hire someone else to get the rash, or to
spray it. That's thinking INSIDE the box.

Thinking OUTSIDE the box is figuring out a way to remove it mechanically,
but efficiently (I agree, the chainsaw is a lousy idea, so that's why I
had asked).

Most of the out-of-the-box answers that came back were GREAT, albeit a
bit on the expensive side for something I don't have to do (like hiring
out trucks with mechanical arms and rotary blades on the end).

I did like the idea of the salt (although it had some big drawbacks), and
the evil-looking $80 pruner that was suggested seemed within my budget.

I immediately discounted the out-of-the-box idea of burning it or hand
pruning it, the former due to the danger of smoke inhalation, and the
latter to the sheer number of manyears it would require to methodically
cut each vine individually.

As for cleanup after the inevitable exposure, I certainly appreciated all
the in-the-box suggestions of using Technu & Zanfel. For removal, I
prefer my out-of-the-box in-the-box duplication of those EXPENSIVE
solutions using simple dish detergent (surfactant), bleach (oxidizer),
alcohol (wetting agent), toothpaste (silicon dioxide abrasive), and
spermicide (non-ionic surfactant).

I'm not exactly sure WHY the spermicide works though, but that too much
out-of-the-box thinking for the pharmacist that I had asked.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonoxyn...son_ivy_creams
"Nonoxynol-9 is also found in Zanfel poison ivy cream.
It effectively helps to break up the oil urushiol that causes the rash."

According to that page, they also use the spermicide in shaving cream for
the same reason. This page says the nonoxyl9 is a biocide:
hanskellner.com/2003/04/25/poison-oak-treatment-zanfel-ingredients/

Surprisingly, this Amazon review of Zanfel contains very useful
information as to HOW the nonoxyl9 actually works:
http://www.amazon.com/Zanfel-Poison-...oduct-reviews/
B000GCPWUU?pageNumber=2
But the key takeaway is that it is a fundamental ingredient that we need
to reproduce in our own home remedies.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:16:26 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:17:21 -0500, Brooklyn1 wrote:

Every power washer I've ever seen has a place to attach a tube for
sucking up liquid, often there's a port right on the spray gun housing
... most normal brained folks would ask the power washer's customer
service department... and it's really dumb to ask about a power washer
without indicating the brand/model number.

This power washer has not only a place to suck up liquid, but it already
has a hose attached. It's just not sucking up the liquid!

I'm sure it's because it needs a switch (somehow) flipped!

Here's a picture of the PowerStroke washer I just took for you.
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11936549.jpg

It uses the Honda GC160 engine, if that helps.

Here is a closeup of the markings & the valving apparatus:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11936568.jpg

If anyone has ever used their pressure washer to suck out of the hose,
they would probably know what the secret configuration setup might be.

Instructions are likely in the owner's manual. This looks like the
same unit... it automatically mixes concentrates. Powerwashers
usually suck concentrate only with the lowest pressure tip, because
they're designed to apply the cleaner and then let it sit, not wash it
right off. If you can't find instructions in the owner's manual phone
the manufacturer.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-press...p-07175291000P

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 11:25:40 -0700, chaniarts wrote:

i have a weed sprayer container that sucks via an venturi, that attaches
to a regular hose that will easily shoot 20' in a stream, or can be
adjusted to spray in a fan. it only cost a few dollars at the borg.

Thanks for the picture of that weed sprayer.
It appears to use a garden hose as part of the apparatus?

I mentioned somewhere in this thread that this infestation of poison oak
starts something like 400 or 500 feet from the house (I haven't meaured
it but it's easily a football field away), and goes for a few hundred
feet further in the downhill direction.

It's not impossible to handle 500 feet of garden hose (I probably have
just about that much already) ... it's not the easiest approach.

Personally I'm looking for a more portable solution for the mountain
folks like me who have hilly acreage.

I like a couple things, in this thread.
First, a bunch of folks have chimed in with ideas. That's neat.
You're obviously working at the job, and that's good.
You've done your internet research, which helps duplicate others success,
and not others failures.
And you're going back and changing the process, as you learn.

I'm not a big contributor of useful ideas, but I'm here to cheer you on.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 08:12:19 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I also am not all that impressed with "in the box" thinkers.

Yup. I agree.

With poison oak, everyone says hire someone else to get the rash, or to
spray it. That's thinking INSIDE the box.

Thinking OUTSIDE the box is figuring out a way to remove it mechanically,
but efficiently (I agree, the chainsaw is a lousy idea, so that's why I
had asked).

Most of the out-of-the-box answers that came back were GREAT, albeit a
bit on the expensive side for something I don't have to do (like hiring
out trucks with mechanical arms and rotary blades on the end).

I did like the idea of the salt (although it had some big drawbacks), and
the evil-looking $80 pruner that was suggested seemed within my budget.

I immediately discounted the out-of-the-box idea of burning it or hand
pruning it, the former due to the danger of smoke inhalation, and the
latter to the sheer number of manyears it would require to methodically
cut each vine individually.

As for cleanup after the inevitable exposure, I certainly appreciated all
the in-the-box suggestions of using Technu & Zanfel. For removal, I
prefer my out-of-the-box in-the-box duplication of those EXPENSIVE
solutions using simple dish detergent (surfactant), bleach (oxidizer),
alcohol (wetting agent), toothpaste (silicon dioxide abrasive), and
spermicide (non-ionic surfactant).

I'm not exactly sure WHY the spermicide works though, but that too much
out-of-the-box thinking for the pharmacist that I had asked.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonoxyn...son_ivy_creams
"Nonoxynol-9 is also found in Zanfel poison ivy cream.
It effectively helps to break up the oil urushiol that causes the rash."

According to that page, they also use the spermicide in shaving cream for
the same reason. This page says the nonoxyl9 is a biocide:
hanskellner.com/2003/04/25/poison-oak-treatment-zanfel-ingredients/

Surprisingly, this Amazon review of Zanfel contains very useful
information as to HOW the nonoxyl9 actually works:
http://www.amazon.com/Zanfel-Poison-...oduct-reviews/
B000GCPWUU?pageNumber=2
But the key takeaway is that it is a fundamental ingredient that we need
to reproduce in our own home remedies.

Danny D. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 11:25:40 -0700, chaniarts wrote:

i have a weed sprayer container that sucks via an venturi, that
attaches to a regular hose that will easily shoot 20' in a stream,
or can be adjusted to spray in a fan. it only cost a few dollars at
the borg.

Thanks for the picture of that weed sprayer.
It appears to use a garden hose as part of the apparatus?

I mentioned somewhere in this thread that this infestation of poison
oak starts something like 400 or 500 feet from the house (I haven't
meaured it but it's easily a football field away), and goes for a few
hundred feet further in the downhill direction.

It's not impossible to handle 500 feet of garden hose (I probably have
just about that much already) ... it's not the easiest approach.

Personally I'm looking for a more portable solution for the mountain
folks like me who have hilly acreage.

A big tank, water pump, and hose nozzle. You could just pay some gardening
company to spray it for you with their big rig. Or go rent a big sprayer.

Danny D. wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:37:15 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Note: The amount of urushiol you see dripping in that one picture
can poison the entire population of the planet, according to the
prior references! wow.

Is there a market for that product?

If there is, let me know 'cuz I have enough urushiol sap to
contaminate everyone on earth very many times over!

You aren't a mad scientist, are you?

On 1/11/2013 12:16 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:17:21 -0500, Brooklyn1 wrote:

Every power washer I've ever seen has a place to attach a tube for
sucking up liquid, often there's a port right on the spray gun housing
... most normal brained folks would ask the power washer's customer
service department... and it's really dumb to ask about a power washer
without indicating the brand/model number.

This power washer has not only a place to suck up liquid, but it already
has a hose attached. It's just not sucking up the liquid!

I'm sure it's because it needs a switch (somehow) flipped!

Here's a picture of the PowerStroke washer I just took for you.
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11936549.jpg

It uses the Honda GC160 engine, if that helps.

Here is a closeup of the markings & the valving apparatus:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11936568.jpg

If anyone has ever used their pressure washer to suck out of the hose,
they would probably know what the secret configuration setup might be.

Getting your pressure washer to suck out of another container may be as
simple as connecting the correct nozzle on the end of the wand. Going
on failing memory, once had one that required a very open nozzle to be
attached to the wand to suck the correct cleaning solution from a
container but without the maximum pressure. Might be worth a try.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 11:04:01 -0800, Bob F wrote:

If there is, let me know 'cuz I have enough urushiol sap to contaminate
everyone on earth very many times over!

You aren't a mad scientist, are you?

Heh heh. Not yet!

I _am_ formulating my own inexpensive toxic-chemical cleaning fluid
though. At the moment, I'm concentrating on the glycol ether because that
seems to be a CRITICAL component of the detoxifying solution.

For example, there are a bunch of patent litigation cases which mention
spermicides as the key surfactant for disrupting the urushiol oil at the
molecular level under the skin.

Apparently your basic "Mean Green" degreaser contains this, at least
according to this MSDS I'm reading right now:
http://www.meangreendegreaser.com/msds-information

The glycol either it contains isn't nonoxyl-9, but it's similar in that
Mean Green contains 2-butoxyethanol & Tetrasodium EDTA (another
surfactant).

Interestingly, the MSDS says to avoid strong oxidizing agents
(e.g., bleach), so I need to find out why as I plan on
adding an oxidizing agent to my home-made camera cleansing solution.

To be continued ...

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:34:52 -0600, NamPhong wrote:

once had one that required a very open nozzle to be attached to the wand
to suck the correct cleaning solution from a container but without the
maximum pressure.

One question.

Since the typical use would be to add detergent to the hose water that is
sprayed out, can we suck ONLY from the container?

Or do we still need to hook the garden hose to the sprayer?

(The reason I ask is that the area it's needed is hundreds of feet from
the nearest garden hose spigot.)

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:16:26 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:17:21 -0500, Brooklyn1 wrote:

Every power washer I've ever seen has a place to attach a tube for
sucking up liquid, often there's a port right on the spray gun housing
... most normal brained folks would ask the power washer's customer
service department... and it's really dumb to ask about a power washer
without indicating the brand/model number.

This power washer has not only a place to suck up liquid, but it already
has a hose attached. It's just not sucking up the liquid!

I'm sure it's because it needs a switch (somehow) flipped!

Here's a picture of the PowerStroke washer I just took for you.
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11936549.jpg

It uses the Honda GC160 engine, if that helps.

Here is a closeup of the markings & the valving apparatus:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11936568.jpg

If anyone has ever used their pressure washer to suck out of the hose,
they would probably know what the secret configuration setup might be.

Mine sucks out of the tank(s) when the "soap" nozzle is inserted in
the wand. With the other nozzles the pressure is too high to suck the
soap out of the tanks.