"Danny D." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 20:01:52 -0800, Pat wrote:

They make cutters that mount on excavators look here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX66xyk0InQ

I WISH I had an excavator/cutter like that one!

Look around. Someone in the area will have one. Hire him.

That WOULD work for the part that I just cleared, but not for the part
deep down in the ravine 100 feet below (which is inaccessible to tractors
AFAIK).

Probably not in my budget though.

A excavator can work a steep slope with a second rig on top with a winch. A
tow truck can be used.

On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 22:22:27 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I thought you were going to spray it on the plants.

Naaah. I'm gonna spray me!

The side of my face has a rash, the back of my ears, my neck where the
camera strap was, and my wrists where the TIG welding gloves lifted up.

And how a drop or few of urushiol sap got on my ankle is a mystery to me
as I was wearing tall rubber boots.

After reading that patent, today I conjured up a triplet solution of 1/3
bleach (oxidizing agent), 1/3 rubbing alcohol (wetting agent), and 1/3
dish detergent (surfactant) and rubbed those spots for about five minutes
in a hot shower today. (Note: Yes, I've heard hot water 'opens the
pores', but I've never heard that urushiol enters via the pores, so I
don't see any good reason to take a cold shower.)

Hopefully that will help but, looking at the Zanfel ingredients:
http://www.empr.com/zanfel/drug/878/
What I really need to add is the spermicide and polyethylene granules!

Do you have any experience with spermicides & PEG?

I googled them and the spermicides seem to be something the lady folks
may know more about but which may be easy to buy at the drug store.

The polyethylene granules may have a common household substitute???

Danny D. wrote:

Do you have any experience with spermicides & PEG?

Drug stores will have spermicide creams.

But your problem is going to be finding spermicides without lubricants.

For the abrasive, maybe toothpaste will work as it has sand in it.

On 01-09-2013 00:04, Danny D. wrote:
Nobody is immune to cell mediated immunity.

Or as my four-year-old sister said,
"There's no such thing of that, 'cause I never heard of it!"

They said no one is immune to smallpox--your lack of scar PROVES you
were never vaccinated. So they did it again.

Two years later, same argument, same result.

My sensitivity to poison oak DEcreased from 1967 to 1972. Don't know
why, but I've posted my hypothesis already.

--
Wes Groleau

Don't get even — get odd!

On 01-09-2013 01:05, Danny D. wrote:
Now, maybe the goats milk matters - because the immune system DOES work
the way you said it does (i.e., when exposed at the right time in the
immune system development, the immune system learns what is body and what
is foreign) - so I am NOT saying you're wrong ... I'm just cautioning
anyone from actually touching the stuff with bare hands on purpose!

TRUE--but many accidental exposures had appeared to confirm the goat's
milk hypothesis. So, being young and foolish, I assumed I was immune
and abandoned precautions. And got away with it.

When it was my son's turn to be young and foolish, he formed the
hypothesis that he could immunize himself by limited contact.
If you know where to look, you can still make out the scars.

The other thing to remember is that the oil is NOT on the outside
of the plant. Not outside the leaves, stem, berries, or root. But
it's inside all of them, so, you (and I) can pick it up (gingerly)
and nothing bad will happen.

Ah, I would question that as well. Before my resistance developed, the
slightest contact had severe effects.

By the way, some of that resistance has gone away over time.

--
Wes Groleau

ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI

On 01-09-2013 01:22, Danny D. wrote:
If they chew on the bark, there's no way they're not exposed to the
urushiol in huge amounts!

Here is a full-sized picture of what's just under the bark on a small
vine, of the type they might chew on. They must have amazing guts!

Well, remember your posts about changing the chemical structure.
Hydrochloric acid and whatever else is in goats' stomachs would probably
do that.

And they don't chew much at first. Like cows, they pick and swallow
rapidly, then they relax somewhere, cough it back up and chew it thoroughly.

--
Wes Groleau

After the christening of his baby brother in church, Jason sobbed
all the way home in the back seat of the car. His father asked him
three times what was wrong. Finally, the boy replied, “That preacher
said he wanted us brought up in a Christian home, and I wanted to
stay with you guys."

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 02:28:48 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote:

If they chew on the bark, there's no way they're not exposed to the
urushiol in huge amounts!

Well, remember your posts about changing the chemical structure.
Hydrochloric acid and whatever else is in goats' stomachs would probably
do that.

Yes, I remember.

Here's basically what we said:
"Urushiol causes dermatitis by changing the surface proteins
in the skin so the body no longer recognizes the skin as human,
and then attacks it (cytokine storm). That effect should be fairly
easy to interfere with because any change to the urushiol molecule
would probably prevent the class IV delayed sensitivity dermatitis.
Chlorine bleach is a strong oxidizing agent which should easily
do the trick. Getting the oxidizer into the oil would be aided by
adding alcohol or acetone as a wetting agent, but a strong surfactant
should also work. Spermicides help to get under the layers of skin.
And polyethylene granules act as an abrasive to remove the horny
barrier."

I assume your hypothesis is that the goat's stomach acids change the
urushiol allergen ever so slightly, such that our body no longer
recognizes the quinone as an allergan in our bodies.

Maybe that is the case, because humans have been known to die from
ingesting urushiol and Lord knows, there is tons of sap in a single vine
as shown in this short 20 second video I took yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYcJslc6ymE

Since, after being covered in urushiol from chainsawing the stuff for
hours, I don't have time for the goat's milk remedy, I am applying the
following five-ingredient poor-man's zanfel/technu as follows:

a. oxidizer (common household sodium hypochlorite or non-chlorine bleach)
b. wetting agent (household rubbing alcohol or acetone)
c. surfactant (common household dish detergent)

To a 1:1:1 solution of those three ingredients, I will dab a paste of
d. non-oily spermicide cream
plus a squirt of
e. abrasive toothpaste

And, then, I will rub all five ingredients into the rash on my neck,
ears, cheek, wrists, and ankle, and call you in the morning!

PS: Here's a picture of the poor-man's Ivy Block which is bentonite clay
that I get for free from the well drilling rigs common here in the hills:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917988.jpg

Hint: It's the active ingredient in the expensive Ivy Block creme!

It's all news, to me. I've heard of baking soda and hydrogen peroxide (and a
couple drops of soap) for skunk spray, but this urishol treatment, I've
never read or done anything.

I hope it works, and can help others.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 22:22:27 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I thought you were going to spray it on the plants.

Naaah. I'm gonna spray me!

The side of my face has a rash, the back of my ears, my neck where the
camera strap was, and my wrists where the TIG welding gloves lifted up.

And how a drop or few of urushiol sap got on my ankle is a mystery to me
as I was wearing tall rubber boots.

After reading that patent, today I conjured up a triplet solution of 1/3
bleach (oxidizing agent), 1/3 rubbing alcohol (wetting agent), and 1/3
dish detergent (surfactant) and rubbed those spots for about five minutes
in a hot shower today. (Note: Yes, I've heard hot water 'opens the
pores', but I've never heard that urushiol enters via the pores, so I
don't see any good reason to take a cold shower.)

Hopefully that will help but, looking at the Zanfel ingredients:
http://www.empr.com/zanfel/drug/878/
What I really need to add is the spermicide and polyethylene granules!

Do you have any experience with spermicides & PEG?

I googled them and the spermicides seem to be something the lady folks
may know more about but which may be easy to buy at the drug store.

The polyethylene granules may have a common household substitute???

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 08:57:03 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I hope it works, and can help others.

Me too.

Just to be clear, I didn't make any of it up.

The ingredients come from the researching the ingredients of IvyBlock,
Technu, Zanfel, and from patent http://tinyurl.com/ah7myn3 (which is
rather explicit as to what chemicals and what concentrations to use).

Here's my field kit:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11926557.jpg

Three of the ingredients are for cleaning my camera and chainsaw, and
adding two more specifically is for removing urushiol from skin:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11926802.jpg

I used this Mcgyveresque field kit last night on the rash on my cheek,
ears, wrists, ankle, and neck (from the camera strap) - and - well - it
was kind of a cool menthol feeling (probably from the mix of fast-drying
alcohol & toothpaste).

It feels less itchy today but be wary of such proclamations from anyone
who isn't doing at least a single-blind test as the placebo effect is
real.

Nonetheless, the science is there for these five ingredients:
a. Oxidizer (to change the urushiol)
b. Surfactant (to remove the oil)
c. Wetting agent (to get to the urushiol in the oil)
d. Abrasive (to scrub away the horny layer)
e. Spermicide (to dig under the overlapping skin cells)

I'll check out the spermicides today, but I hope I can find a non oily
one. If anyone has experience with this, let me know.

Danny D. wrote:

Nonetheless, the science is there for these five ingredients:
a. Oxidizer (to change the urushiol)
b. Surfactant (to remove the oil)
c. Wetting agent (to get to the urushiol in the oil)
d. Abrasive (to scrub away the horny layer)
e. Spermicide (to dig under the overlapping skin cells)

Seems to me this is a field kit for chemical warfare detoxification.

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 15:57:50 -0800, bob haller wrote:

the plants didnt get so large overnite. do you REALLY need access to
that land. this is one case where it might be better to just avoid the
area and ignore it.

Nope. That's the whole point. I don't have to clean up any of this poison
oak. So, I can take my time.

Basically, when I get in the mood for a good fight, I head down to the
ravine for battle. It's really more of a hobby to figure out how to
defeat the poison oak, to beat it at its own game - and not get rashed in
the process.

It has been a tough battle - but I've learned a lot in just the past few
days, so, eventually, I'll know the secret.

Today I talked to a pharmacist. I must have gotten a bad apple because
she kept telling me it's for women and that it won't work on the skin and
that it wasn't an "approved purpose".

I need to find a pharmacist who can actually think out of the box.
(It doesn't seem to be their specialty as all they do is follow the
rules.)

On 01-10-2013 23:08, Danny D. wrote:
I need to find a pharmacist who can actually think out of the box.
(It doesn't seem to be their specialty as all they do is follow the
rules.)

I once argued for five minutes with a pharmacist who didn't want to fill
my prescription for four 85 cc doses of Lovenox. "Only comes in fifty
and a hundred." I finally convinced him I am capable of squirting
fifteen CC into the sink.

--
Wes Groleau

In any formula, constants (especially those obtained
from handbooks) are to be treated as variables.

I have a similar "while I have the time" project. I collect rocks out of a
farmer's field, and fill mudholes with them. One I've been working on, is
where the utility guys pull off the road to do phone wiring. The mudhole is
probably four by 10 feet or so. I've put in a bunch of buckets of rocks, and
I'm falling behind. The mudhole is still there.

A few years back, I used buckets of rock to fill the sink holes at my
church, next to the storm drain.

Farmers are better off without the rocks, and the rest of the world is
better off without the sink holes. I only harvest rocks between crops,
won't walk on shoots or harvestable crops.

I also am not all that impressed with "in the box" thinkers.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Danny D." wrote in message
...

Nope. That's the whole point. I don't have to clean up any of this poison
oak. So, I can take my time.

Basically, when I get in the mood for a good fight, I head down to the
ravine for battle. It's really more of a hobby to figure out how to
defeat the poison oak, to beat it at its own game - and not get rashed in
the process.

It has been a tough battle - but I've learned a lot in just the past few
days, so, eventually, I'll know the secret.

Today I talked to a pharmacist. I must have gotten a bad apple because
she kept telling me it's for women and that it won't work on the skin and
that it wasn't an "approved purpose".

I need to find a pharmacist who can actually think out of the box.
(It doesn't seem to be their specialty as all they do is follow the
rules.)

Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 17:35:56 -0500, Frank wrote:

Have you tried 2,4D? It works on my poison ivy.

Hi Frank,
2,4D (aka Agent Orange) might work, especially if I could drop it out
of the sky like they did in Vietnam - which - is my real problem with
weed killers.

The poison oak plants I have are 20 feet long by something like 5 to
10 to 20 feet deep, so, there's just no way a normal weed killer
sprayer is going to go the distance.

Today I tried to see if I could get my pressure washer to suck out of
the 5 gallon pesticide jug - but I couldn't figure out how to do it.

Does anyone know how to get a pressure washer to spray the stuff?
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/.../11917337.jpg\

Have you tried a hose end sprayer. Mine easily sprays 20 feet. I'd use one of
the "fill spray jar for 6 gallons" variety. You'll have to wait for spring
growth first for most sprays to work.