In article , says...

On 19 Jan 2004 18:45:25 GMT, (Frank White) wrote:

(snip)
However, although there are some changes taking place there -
a huge bulge developing at the bottom of Yellowstone Lake, the
ground in some areas of the park becoming so hot it can't be
walked on - there is nothing to suggest immediate danger.

Of course, that's "immediate" in the geological sense, right?

Right. We could all be dead and dust before anything happens.

FW

In article , says...

On 19 Jan 2004 18:45:25 GMT, (Frank White) wrote:

(snip)
However, although there are some changes taking place there -
a huge bulge developing at the bottom of Yellowstone Lake, the
ground in some areas of the park becoming so hot it can't be
walked on - there is nothing to suggest immediate danger.

Of course, that's "immediate" in the geological sense, right?

Right. We could all be dead and dust before anything happens.

FW

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 06:28:34 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

(snip)
CO in an open area is NEVER lethal. Do your homework and quit telling
falsehoods.

CO in an open area is also hard to control. How do you control the
concentration
enough to make sure it's effective? Must be magic.

You see, this is the problem I have with alanc's claim, here. I
send a lot of time around CO producers: They're called 'cars',
and I have walked beside them, driven in them, and been stuck
in traffic jams surrounded by dozens of them all running and
putting out CO. And aside from gagging over diesel fumes, or
being rocked back by the stink some of them produce when they
burn bad gas, I've never passed out or been unable to breathe.
Heck, I've worked in garages where the air was BLUE with exhaust;
and although it gave me a headache, it didn't incapacitate me.

Which is why I keep saying that for alanc to have driven off a
hunter using CO, it would have to be a gas release on the level
of Bhorpal. Nothing else will work.

(Everytime this comes up I keep remembering a Silver Age Justice
League of America story, in which several superheroes were KO'ed
instantly by a car backfire that unleashed a larger than normal
burst of carbon monoxide despite the fact that it was a normal
car, they were out in the open, and were running at top speed
after the moving car.

Some things just don't work...)

FW

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:21:22 GMT, Ross wrote:



Seems like folks here, on a group *allegedly* focussed on survivalism,
prefer to avoid talking about the probable collapse of their civilization.

Pretty funny.

But understandable. They think that they only way people can have a decent
life is to live as they do now, or how their ancestors lived.

Which is bizarre, considering that by any rational standards, the quality-
of-life in America just plain stinks.



And their fool ancestors wiped out people who had a significantly superior
culture.

What they need to face is the fact that ALL totalitarian regimes control the
people by controlling the history books.

The Soviets also called their country "The Greatest Country on Earth" and
had libraries full of books that "proved" this "fact".

America isnt even anywhere near the top, even by its own standards.

37th in health care, 14th in longevity.

See trendsresearch.com

And even the lifestyle of the Europeans is based upon exploiting the lands
and lives of people in the "3rd World", and those folks are purely fed up
it.

Industrial-Capitalism is simple too destructive of the land and non-member
populations to continue for long.

Is not this the main reason for space travel? The leaders know this planet
is limited.


The leaders want you to think that it will be possible to pillage this
planet do death and then escape from it.

And YOU want to believe that.

Who was it that said "There's a sucker born every minute."?


AC

On 21 Jan 2004 15:22:38 GMT, Frank White wrote:


In article ,
says...

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 06:28:34 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

(snip)
CO in an open area is NEVER lethal. Do your homework and quit telling
falsehoods.

CO in an open area is also hard to control. How do you control the
concentration
enough to make sure it's effective? Must be magic.

You see, this is the problem I have with alanc's claim, here. I
send a lot of time around CO producers: They're called 'cars',
and I have walked beside them, driven in them, and been stuck
in traffic jams surrounded by dozens of them all running and
putting out CO. And aside from gagging over diesel fumes, or
being rocked back by the stink some of them produce when they
burn bad gas, I've never passed out or been unable to breathe.
Heck, I've worked in garages where the air was BLUE with exhaust;
and although it gave me a headache, it didn't incapacitate me.


Except that I was talking about an "exhaust" putting out pure CO
(woodgas) rather than almost pure C02 with traces of C0, which is what cars
and such do.

It's a tactic of limited usefulness, mainly because of the near
zero-wind conditions necessary.

I'll be more careful about my wording in the future. That should have
been clear in the original article.

AC

Hi All,

what is TEOTWAWKI ?. I have read this thread with some interest even though
is has very little with gardening.

Richard M. Watkin.

"Sue" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:42:04 GMT, "D Kat" wrote:

Take a look where this has been cross posted... Many of us in rec.gardens
and probably every room EXCEPT for survivalism are not all that in to
planning for the end of civilization. We are having way too much fun in
our
gardens and doing what we do. Now if you want a hot debate that will
cross
all rooms and have everyone ticked off even at themselves bring up....
NO...
I learned my lesson... I'm NOT going to go there.... Sighhhh, it passed.
All is good.

DKat

Sorry, I just made another post on this thread and didn't remove any
of the other groups. Actually, as far as a can tell, Alan is the only
one of the regular posters *convinced* that the end of civilization is
coming soon. Everyone else, I believe, just uses TEOTWAWKI scenarios
for mental excercises.
Sue - not deleting your group because this is addressed to you


"Alan Connor" wrote in message
hlink.net...
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 06:57:27 -0500, wrote:



"Alan Connor" wrote in message
ink.net...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:25:02 -0500, Peter H
wrote:


Condor Chef wrote:

What people forget is that a rock is not a football, or a
baseball,
or a
grenade.



Footballs & baseballs have already been covered by this thread &
even
by
professional throwers found quite wanting. And, should you be able
to
throw a hand grenade 100 yards or better, it would explode before
landing, pretty well obviating the reason for throwing one in the
first
place. It's simply not a feasible feat. Any rock you might throw
(by
hand, but I most seriously doubt it) 100 yards would not be an
effective
weapon.

Someone around here needs to look up "figure of speech".


*I* certainly didn't even imply that anyone would try to throw a
rock
for
an 1/8 of a mile as a weapon.

No, but now you've implied that there are 800 yards to a mile.



Seems like folks here, on a group *allegedly* focussed on survivalism,
prefer to avoid talking about the probable collapse of their
civilization.

Pretty funny.

But understandable. They think that they only way people can have a
decent
life is to live as they do now, or how their ancestors lived.

Which is bizarre, considering that by any rational standards, the
quality-
of-life in America just plain stinks.

And their fool ancestors wiped out people who had a significantly
superior
culture.

What they need to face is the fact that ALL totalitarian regimes
control
the
people by controlling the history books.

The Soviets also called their country "The Greatest Country on Earth"
and
had libraries full of books that "proved" this "fact".

America isnt even anywhere near the top, even by its own standards.

37th in health care, 14th in longevity.

See trendsresearch.com

And even the lifestyle of the Europeans is based upon exploiting the
lands
and lives of people in the "3rd World", and those folks are purely fed
up
it.

Industrial-Capitalism is simple too destructive of the land and
non-member
populations to continue for long.


AC

This took me some time to sort out myself, not being a
survivalist/armageddonist sort. I believe it means
The End Of The World As We Know It
" R M. Watkin" wrote in message
news
Hi All,

what is TEOTWAWKI ?. I have read this thread with some interest even
though
is has very little with gardening.

Richard M. Watkin.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:13:38 -0000, R M. Watkin wrote:


Hi All,

what is TEOTWAWKI ?. I have read this thread with some interest even though
is has very little with gardening.

Richard M. Watkin.

The End Of The World As We Know It


Gardening has a lot to do with IT, however, if you plan to survive after
this civilization collapses.

Why is it going to collapse?

Because it is incredibly destructive of the environment and requires an
extensive under-class that must live in poverty because the fruits of
their labors are needed to sustain the lifestyle of the 'Haves'.

This in turn requires a lot of violence and coercion, further adding to
the misery of the de facto slaves that form the economic foundation of
Industrial-Capitalism.

Most of these are, of course, in the "3rd World" where the 'Good White
Christians' and 'Enlightened Progressives' don't have to witness their
misery and hopelessness.

And their ranks are swelled by all of the people driven from their ancestral
lands into urban ghettos because those lands are needed for the plantations
and clear cuts and mines and dams and factories and roads that Business
must have in order to function.

It has to die because it is a failure. A failed experiment that threatens
all life on Earth.

And creates more misery than it does happiness.

AC

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:13:38 -0000, R M. Watkin wrote:


Hi All,

what is TEOTWAWKI ?. I have read this thread with some interest even though
is has very little with gardening.

Richard M. Watkin.

The End Of The World As We Know It


Gardening has a lot to do with IT, however, if you plan to survive after
this civilization collapses.

Why is it going to collapse?

Because it is incredibly destructive of the environment and requires an
extensive under-class that must live in poverty because the fruits of
their labors are needed to sustain the lifestyle of the 'Haves'.

This in turn requires a lot of violence and coercion, further adding to
the misery of the de facto slaves that form the economic foundation of
Industrial-Capitalism.

Most of these are, of course, in the "3rd World" where the 'Good White
Christians' and 'Enlightened Progressives' don't have to witness their
misery and hopelessness.

And their ranks are swelled by all of the people driven from their ancestral
lands into urban ghettos because those lands are needed for the plantations
and clear cuts and mines and dams and factories and roads that Business
must have in order to function.

It has to die because it is a failure. A failed experiment that threatens
all life on Earth.

And creates more misery than it does happiness.

AC

gregpresley wrote:

This took me some time to sort out myself, not being a
survivalist/armageddonist sort. I believe it means
The End Of The World As We Know It

Yup. Anything from losing a job during a bad economy, through a moon
sized asteroid hitting the planet.

Massive changes for the people involved. Best defense for the stuff
you can do something about is to diversify investments, plant a
variety of veggies, preserve what you don't eat, have a generator to
keep the freezer cold in power outages, keep the rototiller serviced,
other silly, right winger, survivalist wierdo stuff like that.

Alan Connor wrote in message link.net...

If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...
AC

You silly asshole. First, there is NO collapse in sight except for
your sanity. Second, who is going to RUN? Not me. Let the bandits try,
I will put a 9 mm up their nose.

jimbo

Frank White wrote:

(Everytime this comes up I keep remembering a Silver Age Justice
League of America story, in which several superheroes were KO'ed
instantly by a car backfire that unleashed a larger than normal
burst of carbon monoxide despite the fact that it was a normal
car, they were out in the open, and were running at top speed
after the moving car.

Some things just don't work...)


Isn't it neat how some fantasies just keep on working and working and.....

Pete H

--
We are all of one nation, all of one creed
We are all out of nature, all of one seed
I. Bairnson

Alan Connor wrote:

Except that I was talking about an "exhaust" putting out pure CO
(woodgas)


Then you've missed your chance! You stumbled onto (under?) the
hypothetical "perfect combustion engine/source" and should have made
better note of the circumstances. If you can capture the beast & get a
patent, your income would make Bill Gates' net worth look like a tip to
the parking valet.

Or do I misunderstand and these folks were "chasing after" a source of
wood gas exhaust? Should that be the case, you've seen too many "Men In
***" flicks.

rather than almost pure C02 with traces of C0, which is what cars
and such do.

"...and such..." I hereby refer you to:

http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm

wherein the sweeping generality takes its rightful place amongst the
more common brain-gasses of our time

But, then, you're on this great big "collapse" kick which is one of the
ultimate gasses. Such fanatsies have been around as long as means to
record them.


Pete H

--
We are all of one nation, all of one creed
We are all out of nature, all of one seed
I. Bairnson

Ross wro

Is not this the main reason for space travel? The leaders know this planet
is limited.



'Fraid I've gotta go with AC on this one. Any meaningful migration (as
opposed to expansion) of the human race off this planet is rather like
going regularly from New York to Paris to buy the daily bread and
cheese. It can (barely) be done, but nobody can foot the bill.

Pete H

--
We are all of one nation, all of one creed
We are all out of nature, all of one seed
I. Bairnson

Frank White wrote:

In article , says...


On 19 Jan 2004 18:45:25 GMT, (Frank White) wrote:

walked on - there is nothing to suggest immediate danger.


Of course, that's "immediate" in the geological sense, right?



Right. We could all be dead and dust before anything happens.

FW



Statistically, you're right on. Plus or minus several millennia.

Pete H

--
We are all of one nation, all of one creed
We are all out of nature, all of one seed
I. Bairnson