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#61
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Damons? Plums?
On 17/8/08 10:01, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote: In article , Rusty Hinge 2 writes: | | Well, it IS just a variety of plum! And, yes, that's its origin. | The French terms that I find a a bit odd are where the same word | is used for two items that are used very differently - groseille | being an example. | | And English (to include USanian) is little better, if at all: think 'muffin'? Indeed, but it is relatively rare for a single dialect not to distinguish two things that are (a) both commonly used and (b) where there is a significant possibility of confusion. Muffin is unambiguous, once you know which side of the pond you are. But I have read French recipes which use unadorned groseille, where any groseille could be used, but where the results would taste very different. I am pretty sure that they meant gooseberry, there. Regards, Nick Maclaren. Bit like 'mûres' which, I think, can mean both blackberries or mulberries. I imagine it's more often used to mean blackberries. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon |
#62
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Damons? Plums?
In article , Sacha writes: | | Bit like 'mûres' which, I think, can mean both blackberries or mulberries. | I imagine it's more often used to mean blackberries. In my experience, mulberries - the French don't seem to value blackberries much, possibly because they tend to be very shrivelled in dry summer locations. Also, they have grapes as a soft autumn fruit. As far as I know, there are no qualifications to distinguish those. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#63
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Damons? Plums?
[ Corrected version ] In article , Sacha writes: | | Bit like 'mûres' which, I think, can mean both blackberries or mulberries. | I imagine it's more often used to mean blackberries. In my experience, mulberries - the French don't seem to value blackberries much, possibly because they tend to be very shrivelled in dry summer locations. Also, they have grapes as a soft autumn fruit. As far as I know, there are no qualifications to distinguish those, though I have seen "mures sauvage". Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#64
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Damons? Plums?
On 17/8/08 10:20, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote: [ Corrected version ] In article , Sacha writes: | | Bit like 'mûres' which, I think, can mean both blackberries or mulberries. | I imagine it's more often used to mean blackberries. In my experience, mulberries - the French don't seem to value blackberries much, possibly because they tend to be very shrivelled in dry summer locations. Also, they have grapes as a soft autumn fruit. As far as I know, there are no qualifications to distinguish those, though I have seen "mures sauvage". Regards, Nick Maclaren. I'd assumed blackberries but that's because I like Crème de Mûres added to my summer white wine, rather than Cassis. ;-) -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon ures |
#65
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Damons? Plums?
On 17/8/08 10:11, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote: In article , Sacha writes: | On 17/8/08 07:44, in article , | "David Rance" wrote: | | Maquereau is also a colloquial word for a pimp! | | What an exciting life you lead - ordering in a restaurant must be very | hazardous! ;-) Such as in the franglais: moi, maquereau - et ma femme, poule? Just so long as you don't add 'de luxe'!!! I wonder if that book is still around. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon |
#66
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Damons? Plums?
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008, Nick Maclaren wrote:
David Rance writes: | | They do distinguish between groseille rouge, groseille blanche and | groseille Ã* maquereau (gooseberry). | | Interesting that it's defined by the mackerel it accompanies in classic | dishes! | | Hmm, I'll have to try that. I love mackerel and have just bought a | gooseberry bush. They need to be unripe. Sorrel also goes very well, as do barberries. Now it's funny you should say that. My wife I (who is still in England and we correspond several times a day via email) had never heard of gooseberry sauce, either with mackerel or (as I suggested) with goose. So I looked it up and found the following from the writings of Dorothy Wordsworth, sister of the poet: "Gooseberry sauce was a common accompaniment to fish such as mackerel, but it was also used with goose, as in the following recipe from 'The queen’s royal cookery: or, expert and ready ways for the dressing of all sorts of flesh, fowl, fish: …' by T.Hall, free cook of London (1709). "Sauce for Green-Geese. "Take Sorrel, pick it and wash it, and swing it in a coarse Cloth and stamp it, and strain the Juice; then have some Gooseberries tender scalded, but not broke; then melt some Butter very thick with the Juice of Sorrel; then sweeten it well with Sugar, and put in the Gooseberries, put it into the Dish, and lay the Geese upon it; and garnish the Dish with scalded Gooseberries and a little scrap’d Sugar; this Sauce will serve for a boiled Leg of Lamb." So there you are. Sorrel *and* gooseberry in the same recipe for young goose! David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
#67
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Damons? Plums?
In article , Sacha writes: | | I'd assumed blackberries but that's because I like Crème de Mûres added to | my summer white wine, rather than Cassis. ;-) Isn't that made from mulberries? We use it in preference, too. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#68
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Damons? Plums?
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008, Sacha wrote:
On 17/8/08 10:01, in article , "Nick Maclaren" wrote: In article , Rusty Hinge 2 writes: | | Well, it IS just a variety of plum! And, yes, that's its origin. | The French terms that I find a a bit odd are where the same word | is used for two items that are used very differently - groseille | being an example. | | And English (to include USanian) is little better, if at all: think 'muffin'? Indeed, but it is relatively rare for a single dialect not to distinguish two things that are (a) both commonly used and (b) where there is a significant possibility of confusion. Muffin is unambiguous, once you know which side of the pond you are. But I have read French recipes which use unadorned groseille, where any groseille could be used, but where the results would taste very different. I am pretty sure that they meant gooseberry, there. Regards, Nick Maclaren. Bit like 'mûres' which, I think, can mean both blackberries or mulberries. I imagine it's more often used to mean blackberries. Only because blackberries are more plentiful than mulberries. ;-) David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
#69
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Damons? Plums?
On 17/8/08 10:40, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote: In article , Sacha writes: | | I'd assumed blackberries but that's because I like Crème de Mûres added to | my summer white wine, rather than Cassis. ;-) Isn't that made from mulberries? We use it in preference, too. Regards, Nick Maclaren. !! I thought it was blackberries! I'll have to see if we've still got some in the house. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon |
#70
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Damons? Plums?
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008, Sacha wrote:
"David Rance" wrote: On Sat, 16 Aug 2008, Rusty Hinge 2 wrote: They do distinguish between groseille rouge, groseille blanche and groseille à maquereau (gooseberry). Something fishy about that. Mackerel berry? Maquereau is also a colloquial word for a pimp! David What an exciting life you lead - ordering in a restaurant must be very hazardous! ;-) But very exciting! David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
#71
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Damons? Plums?
On 17/8/08 10:40, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote: In article , Sacha writes: | | I'd assumed blackberries but that's because I like Crème de Mûres added to | my summer white wine, rather than Cassis. ;-) Isn't that made from mulberries? We use it in preference, too. Looking at the bottle we have, made by Giffard in Angers, its label shows a pic of blackberries. But a very brief look round the internet seems to indicate that your mûres sauvages are blackberries, if identified correctly. FR4142 Crème de Mures Sauvages Gabriel Boudier 70cl 20% 15.05 Perfectly ripe wild blackberries macerated in the finest alcohol to extract the full fruit flavour then sweetened with just the right amount of sugar. Delicious mixed with dry white wine or Champagne - Kir style. http://www.bairds-wines.co.uk/spirits.asp Gabriel Boudier makes a similar drink with Mûres Sauvages. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon |
#72
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Damons? Plums?
On 17/8/08 10:41, in article ,
"David Rance" wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2008, Sacha wrote: On 17/8/08 10:01, in article , "Nick Maclaren" wrote: In article , Rusty Hinge 2 writes: | | Well, it IS just a variety of plum! And, yes, that's its origin. | The French terms that I find a a bit odd are where the same word | is used for two items that are used very differently - groseille | being an example. | | And English (to include USanian) is little better, if at all: think 'muffin'? Indeed, but it is relatively rare for a single dialect not to distinguish two things that are (a) both commonly used and (b) where there is a significant possibility of confusion. Muffin is unambiguous, once you know which side of the pond you are. But I have read French recipes which use unadorned groseille, where any groseille could be used, but where the results would taste very different. I am pretty sure that they meant gooseberry, there. Regards, Nick Maclaren. Bit like 'mûres' which, I think, can mean both blackberries or mulberries. I imagine it's more often used to mean blackberries. Only because blackberries are more plentiful than mulberries. ;-) David Sez he living in Calva country. ;-) -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon |
#73
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Damons? Plums?
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008, Sacha wrote:
Maclaren" wrote: | I'd assumed blackberries but that's because I like Crème de Mûres added to | my summer white wine, rather than Cassis. ;-) Isn't that made from mulberries? We use it in preference, too. !! I thought it was blackberries! I'll have to see if we've still got some in the house. I thought it was blackberries, too. I've made both blackberry and mulberry jelly and I have to say that the mulberry jelly was very disappointing. Very little flavour. I have some Crème de Mûre - in England! - so I can't try it right now. David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
#74
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Damons? Plums?
In article , Sacha writes: | | | I'd assumed blackberries but that's because I like Crème de Mûres added to | | my summer white wine, rather than Cassis. ;-) | | Isn't that made from mulberries? We use it in preference, too. | | !! I thought it was blackberries! I'll have to see if we've still got some | in the house. We have. The picture shows what look more like blackberry fruit in front of what look exactly like mulberry leaves. However, label artists are rarely botanists, mulberries are less regular than blackberries (and hence less label-worthy) and blackberry leaves are very variable. To my taste, it is closer to mulberry than blackberry, but that might be because I am tasting what I expect. Unless someone has visited the source, and asked, I doubt that we shall know for certain. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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